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#580872 - 12/12/10 07:35 PM Re: Q for JB [Re: Troy Lightbourne]
Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
Originally Posted By: Troy Lightbourne
Originally Posted By: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette

X-Men: Byrne blames Claremont.

Fantastic Four: Byrne blames increased editorial interference

Superman: Byrne blames Dick Giordano

Next Men: Byrne blames the comics market

Danger Unlimited: Byrne blames retailers

Avengers West Coast: Byrne blames "a bone-head EiC who did not pay attention."

Captain America: Byrne blames Jim Shooter

Hulk: Byrne blames the Editor in Chief.

Indiana Jones: Byrne blames Jim Shooter and LucasFilm.

She-Hulk: Byrne blames Bobbie Chase.

X-Men (second run): Byrne blames Jim Lee.

This is all from Byrne's FAQ. These are his stated reasons.


As Ceci beautifully illustrates here, you rarely have to go beyond Byrne's own words to say to yourself, "Geez! This guy sure quits a lot of jobs!"


Hardly. What Poor Ceci is managing to do is paint with black & white colors (as do most Detractors™).
There is certainly far more details to put forth (and by no means were reasons given as simple as Poor Ceci & most Detractors™ want to portray them) in pretty much all of the occurrences.
While a few may not necessarily be justifiable reasons for JB to decide to leave some of the titles, using these examples to try to portray JB as a "quitter" is way off base.

Originally Posted By: Troy Lightbourne
Even if I'd never heard of Byrne's reputation, just reading through his own FAQ section would trigger the ol' spider-sense that this guy's stories sound just a little too similar and a little too loaded.


Then you would be wrong to jump to such a conclusion. By no means should anyone's own very obvious bias be taken at face value, but at the same time their version of events should also not be automatically dismissed (especially if you yourself have some sort of inherent negative bias towards someone based pretty much only on their online personality).

Bottom line (yeah...right), if you can't prove or disprove something, then bitching & moaning about possibilities just makes you look petty & opportunistic (which accurately describes most Detractors™).

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#580873 - 12/12/10 07:46 PM Re: Q for JB [Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
Alexander Ness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3692
Loc: Minnesota
I'd rather have someone on a book who'd like to be on it. Being a capricious whim led creative I know if I had to write 6 more issues of Dorkman and Blobbo and hated it thus far, I wouldn't produce as good of work as otherwise.

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#580874 - 12/12/10 08:11 PM Re: Q for JB [Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2822
Honestly, Paul. We all know you're not really ignoring me. You can go ahead and respond directly to me instead of acting through intermediaries.

Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
Hardly. What Poor Ceci is managing to do is paint with black & white colors (as do most Detractors™).


Wait... since I got all that information from Byrne's FAQ, does that make John Byrne a detractor? Oh man, did I just BLOW YOUR MIND?!?

Quote:
There is certainly far more details to put forth (and by no means were reasons given as simple as Poor Ceci & most Detractors™ want to portray them) in pretty much all of the occurrences.


Fair enough, Paul. Feel free to give us the details that show how I have oversimplified things.

Of course, you will not do so.

Quote:
By no means should anyone's own very obvious bias be taken at face value, but at the same time their version of events should also not be automatically dismissed (especially if you yourself have some sort of inherent negative bias towards someone based pretty much only on their online personality).


Remember earlier when you automatically dismissed anything said by someone at IMWAN? Good times, Paul. Good times.
_________________________
"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
- Ed Gauthier, DCP

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#580875 - 12/12/10 09:12 PM Re: Q for JB [Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
Troy Lightbourne Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 543
Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
Originally Posted By: Troy Lightbourne
Originally Posted By: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette

X-Men: Byrne blames Claremont.

Fantastic Four: Byrne blames increased editorial interference

Superman: Byrne blames Dick Giordano

Next Men: Byrne blames the comics market

Danger Unlimited: Byrne blames retailers

Avengers West Coast: Byrne blames "a bone-head EiC who did not pay attention."

Captain America: Byrne blames Jim Shooter

Hulk: Byrne blames the Editor in Chief.

Indiana Jones: Byrne blames Jim Shooter and LucasFilm.

She-Hulk: Byrne blames Bobbie Chase.

X-Men (second run): Byrne blames Jim Lee.

This is all from Byrne's FAQ. These are his stated reasons.


As Ceci beautifully illustrates here, you rarely have to go beyond Byrne's own words to say to yourself, "Geez! This guy sure quits a lot of jobs!"


What Poor Ceci is managing to do is paint with black & white colors (as do most Detractors™).
There is certainly far more details to put forth (and by no means were reasons given as simple as Poor Ceci & most Detractors™ want to portray them) in pretty much all of the occurrences.



Ceci drew his information from Byrne's own accounts. Yes. He filtered out the ten or so paragraphs where Byrne cries about how Jim Shooter/ DC double-crossed him, but would the inclusion of that self-serving fluff really take away from his point?

Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.

Originally Posted By: Troy Lightbourne
Even if I'd never heard of Byrne's reputation, just reading through his own FAQ section would trigger the ol' spider-sense that this guy's stories sound just a little too similar and a little too loaded.


Then you would be wrong to jump to such a conclusion. By no means should anyone's own very obvious bias be taken at face value, but at the same time their version of events should also not be automatically dismissed.


Since all of these stories follows the same exact pattern of...

1. Byrne, the noble creative artist, wants to act only in the interest of his fans and the beloved characters he is writing/ illustrating.

2. Petty megalomaniacal forces intervene. Usually some type of "double cross" is involved.

3. Byrne quits.

At some point, as others have pointed out, one has to look inward and consider, "Maybe it's me!"

To look at nine or ten of these incidents and say, "Aw Man. That poor Byrne sure has rotten luck" is pretty naive.
_________________________
"...M*****..." ---John Byrne, a sixty year old man unwilling to refer to Marvel Comics by their proper name because they'd canceled his book.

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#580887 - 12/13/10 07:18 AM Re: Q for JB [Re: Alexander Ness]
Troy Lightbourne Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 543
Originally Posted By: Alexander Ness
I'd rather have someone on a book who'd like to be on it. Being a capricious whim led creative I know if I had to write 6 more issues of Dorkman and Blobbo and hated it thus far, I wouldn't produce as good of work as otherwise.


I don't think anyone is arguing that Byrne should've stayed on any job past the point he wanted to. If you are going to quit a bunch of jobs though, how can you become indignant and defensive when you get a reputation for quitting a bunch of jobs?
_________________________
"...M*****..." ---John Byrne, a sixty year old man unwilling to refer to Marvel Comics by their proper name because they'd canceled his book.

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#580889 - 12/13/10 12:02 PM Re: Q for JB [Re: Troy Lightbourne]
Alexander Ness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3692
Loc: Minnesota
Maybe he prefers everyone talked nicely about him.

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#580890 - 12/13/10 01:16 PM Re: Q for JB [Re: Alexander Ness]
Bendrix Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 295
Originally Posted By: Alexander Ness
Maybe he prefers everyone talked nicely about him.


Then maybe he should talk nicely about others.

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#580891 - 12/13/10 01:32 PM Re: Q for JB [Re: Bendrix]
Alexander Ness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3692
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Bendrix
Originally Posted By: Alexander Ness
Maybe he prefers everyone talked nicely about him.


Then maybe he should talk nicely about others.


Well yeah. I didn't suggest otherwise.

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#580900 - 12/14/10 04:05 AM Re: Q for JB [Re: Alexander Ness]
Bendrix Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 295
Originally Posted By: Alexander Ness
Originally Posted By: Bendrix
Originally Posted By: Alexander Ness
Maybe he prefers everyone talked nicely about him.


Then maybe he should talk nicely about others.


Well yeah. I didn't suggest otherwise.


Was more meant as a suggestion for JB. laugh

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#580902 - 12/14/10 10:26 AM Re: Q for JB [Re: Alexander Ness]
Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
Originally Posted By: Alexander Ness
I'd rather have someone on a book who'd like to be on it. Being a capricious whim led creative I know if I had to write 6 more issues of Dorkman and Blobbo and hated it thus far, I wouldn't produce as good of work as otherwise.


I agree. Which makes it kinda sad when I read about projects that JB expresses affection for & we learn that politics played a part in some & idiotic decision making played a part in others.

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