#575949 - 08/06/10 05:55 PM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Alexander Ness]
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Member
Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2822
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If this opens a new can of worms then Paul I apologize, but, Ceci do you think it is easy moving? That is one thing, because it isn't easy for everyone. Are you suggesting that different events have a different impacts on different people, and that trying to make a blanket statement like, "[X] shouldn't have an effect on your workload" is silly? The very idea! Seriously though... no, I don't think moving is easy. It's hard work, and a hell of a nuisance. But I do think comparing it to the death of a member of one's immediate family is ridiculous. Really, would you ever go to someone's funeral, approach their grieving child, put your hand on their shoulder, and say, "Yeah... I moved last month, so... I get what you're going through." *pat their shoulder a couple of times* "We all got problems, man."
_________________________
"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever." - Ed Gauthier, DCP
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#575950 - 08/06/10 05:56 PM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
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Member
Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3692
Loc: Minnesota
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I have no issues that the one is way more of import, not disagreeing, just saying he might be claustrophobic or something.
_________________________
I write lots.
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#575951 - 08/06/10 06:02 PM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Alexander Ness]
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Member
Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 1338
Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
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I think on this one everyone sees Byrne's point and mostly agree with it, but it's his method of actually expressing it. Ideally, wherever possible, you should be far enough in front of your work that you can accommodate most circumstances but for many this is impossible. I know in my job that I miss most of my deadlines but only because I have so much work to do with so few resources at my disposal that on paper, I look pretty crap, but somehow we'll muddle through and move onto the next crisis. It's nearly 11 O'Clock at night here and I am remoting into my work PC, typing up a Solution Design document, playing catch up.
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#575954 - 08/06/10 08:12 PM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
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Member
Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
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Expecting others to follow his example of professionalism is WAY too much to ask for. Then and now. Admittedly, I've never worked in the comics industry. But I'm unfamiliar with any concept of "professionalism" that involves insulting a colleague (and former boss) in public for mourning his dead mother. That sound you hear is yet another detractor missing a point...on purpose. It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with someone's dead mother. The point (besides the one on top of your thick skull) was having a professional work ethic. I'll speak more in the next few posts, so don't jump the gun just yet my bosom buddy chum & pal!
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#575955 - 08/06/10 08:12 PM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Alexander Ness]
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Member
Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
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Having had three books not appear, yet, after two different artists had issues, I think I can sympathize with Byrne, he worked through when others wouldn't, but I think most of us would be more human and deal with the emotional event more so than the work issue.
In my last month of university as a grad student I broke my ankle, my father had a stroke and three heart attacks and died, and my wife who was pregnant had to be rushed to the hospital with bleeding down below. My boy in her belly was ok, my dad was still quite dead, and I was in enormous pain, without any pain meds, but I wrote my two 40 page papers, because I didn't want the professors to mark me down for lateness. When I handed the work in one remarked I'd already given you the A for the class, the other said hmmph I was looking forward to giving you shit. People are different, and I do not expect people to be like I would be.
So could we give Byrne a thumbs up for work ethic and thumbs down for insensitivity without making it an attack? I think so. But I think it is far far better to be ahead of the task than catching up. Because people aren't likely to give you the break. You're a man of reason & forethought...Maybe even fivethought!
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#575956 - 08/06/10 08:12 PM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Alexander Ness]
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Member
Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
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If this opens a new can of worms then Paul I apologize, but, Ceci do you think it is easy moving? That is one thing, because it isn't easy for everyone. I lose a year off my life when I move. My wife and son have ADHD and have ZERO organizational skills. Getting them here to there, even temporarily removes months from my life expectancy. What if Byrne is a pack rat and the very thought of moving makes him ill ... What if he has booby traps of debris set up across his home to kill intruders? No need to apologize at all. As I mentioned earlier there certainly is no comparison between death & moving (although moving makes me want to die, sometimes, especially in Summertime!) & JB was wrong to even imply a comparison. I don't believe (uh oh) that JB was targeting Joe Quesada's mother's death at the time. He was just taking advantage of the timing to put forth his work ethic diatribe. He shouldn'ta oughta done it as it (to coin your phrase) opened up a predictable can o' worms. This is just another molehill (Hi shjonescrk!) for certain detractors to make into a mountain.
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#575958 - 08/07/10 01:27 AM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
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Member
Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2822
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It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with someone's dead mother. Except for the sticky little point that Byrne said that he was tired of personal tragedies being used as excuses, and specifically identified Quesada's dead mother as an example. Let me ask you two point blank questions, Paul, with yes or no answers. (Not that you will provide yes or no answers.) 1) Do you think it is an example of professional behavior to insult a colleague or boss in public for falling behind on work during a personal tragedy, such as the death of a family member? 2) Do you think that doing so is an example of professionalism that we should expect others to follow? Remember, when crafting your response, that these are incredibly simple, incredibly direct yes or no questions.
_________________________
"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever." - Ed Gauthier, DCP
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#575959 - 08/07/10 04:25 AM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
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Member
Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 295
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The MAIN problem here is that JB tries to instill his own work ethic into the mix, so to speak. That was (and still is) a mistake, but only because the vast majority of today's talents have no real PROFESSIONAL work ethic to speak of.
Not only his work ethic, his definition of professional work ethic, too. I once mentioned that Eduardo Risso managed to draw all 100 issues of 100 Bullets, and that I see this as quite a accomplishment. Byrne told me it was not even worth mentioning, because it wasn't monthly ( jealous anyone?). Bailing after a hand full of issues because of minor inconveniences or a hurt ego, as long as the hand full came out on time, even leaving the work unfinished --> professional. Dedicating yourself to one book for 100 issues over 9 years with some minor schedule slips --> slacker.
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#575960 - 08/07/10 04:28 AM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
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Member
Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 295
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This is just another molehill (Hi shjonescrk!) for certain detractors to make into a mountain.
And if you pile up thousands of molehills, they eventually make a mountain.
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#575963 - 08/07/10 07:35 AM
Re: Q for JB
[Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
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Member
Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 1338
Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
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I don't believe (uh oh) that JB was targeting Joe Quesada's mother's death at the time. He was just taking advantage of the timing to put forth his work ethic diatribe. He shouldn'ta oughta done it as it (to coin your phrase) opened up a predictable can o' worms.
Here's what Byrne wrote: I recall Quesada using his mother's death as an excuse for his Daredevil work being late. At the time I noted that if the work had been on a realistic schedule to begin with, this family loss would have had no impact on the timeliness of that work.
I am tired of personal tragedies, natural disasters and other such upheavals being used as excuses for late books.
You're right, Paul, as Byrne is clearly NOT targetting Quesada and the death of his mother to make his point. As I wrote early, Byrne has a point but to persuade people of your point, you have to use tact and understanding. You also have to recognise that the person disagreeing with you might also have a point. Byrne sees the world in simple black & white - there is no room for nuance as far as he is concerned. I've been following Byrne for nigh on 10 years now and he remains as dogmatic and inflexible and fun to watch as ever. I'd just wish he put the same passion and belief and sheer nuttiness into his comics as he does into his messageboard post - then, perhaps, we might be talking about his comics instead of his personality.
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