Some thoughts on the issues at hand on this thread, including how removing one's name from old work impacts on old partners, and all that happy shit:

http://srbissette.com/?p=10684

@ChrisW: Re: "We get it, that's a bad idea and a decision which has led to untold misery in the comic book field (among other places), but it's also a legitimate free will choice that must not be taken away."

My first experience with signing away such rights, "free will choice" and all that, was after working for two months on a job for Marvel in 1978. It was assigned to me by a Marvel editor, working from a Marvel assigned text (a Ron Goulart story I was to adapt myself to comics, then Ron would "script" it over my completed and painted boards, Marvel style), worked my ass off on it for eight weeks, including airbrush work by my pal Rick Veitch (that I then owed him for), and I delivered it on time in person at the Marvel offices.

OUR—not just "my," but OUR rent, me and three roommates—paying the rent that month hung on my coming home with the check promised by my editor.

When the job was admired, discussed, and accepted on the spot, I was then presented with a "sign all rights away for ALL Marvel work you've ever done or will ever do" blanket contract, and told if I didn't sign it, I wouldn't be paid.

I later protected myself against such extortion and similar tactics, and have walked away from jobs (including completed jobs, taking them home with me) rather than stoop to that low again.

But we'd all (me, Rick Veitch, John Totleben, Tom Yeates) have been evicted if I'd come home without that check.

"Legitimate free choice," my fucking ass, Chris.

Too many of you folks have absolutely no idea what it's like in the trenches.

It seems to me just because a guy foolishly leaves his keys in the car that it in no way justifies or excuses another's taking it. As Sim made clear, Gerhard is free to tear up any checks sent to him, but Sim's moral code isn't dependent on any potential foolishness of Gerhard's. Sim's decision in no way impedes Gerhard's freedom or his own sense of morality. The same should be applied to DC's treatment of its creators. Even if everyone who ever signed a contract with them was a complete simpleton about the real world of capitalism, that doesn't entail what DC should've done morally. Getting the better of others isn't a moral prescription, even if the other is gullible (or, more likely, acting out of immediate necessity). Indeed, one might reasonably argue that it didn't make for good (realistic) business sense in the long run, since having a bunch of creators feeling cheated eventually led to the company eating its own tail, recycling the past when creators have more options to go elsewhere.

Are you aware that Moore wrote a miniseries for Avatar last year (Neonomicon) to cover the cost of a tax bill? He's not playing the "I've got mine so fuck you" game.



As someone who enjoys reveling in that "retired" American comic book creator status, I doubt your info on the subject is current.

Okay, you're two steps away from babbling here.

Just in case people out there with lives don't want to bother re-reading this thread...

I've never criticized creators who write and draw their own work, nor have I said that anyone who wants to write and draw their own comics shouldn't do so. All I've said is that comics are, in general, a collaborative medium, which happens to be true even if someone writes and draws their own work, unless they also ink, letter and color it.

Beyond that, I really don't know how to respond to Allen. It's like trying to argue with a schizophrenic where he's talking about delusions only he has.

Mike

And just to clear up this point...




Allen, you did bring up royalties in the context of Adam Warren and EMPOWERED. It's actually somewhat encouraging to see you try and wriggle out of it, because it means that you are capable of realizing when you're spouting bullshit.

Mike

And all I've said is that notion, in general, is a construct of trademark servicing publishers. That is not how comics creators originally worked over a hundred years ago, and it's not how little kids who create comics work now. It's not a natural thought process to want others taking part in your art — read the links to the D'Arc Tangent debacle in Bissette's discussion with Sim.

Okay, I'll concede that point. Adam Warren likely gets paid again and again for ongoing sales of his Empowered graphic novels that he did years ago.

D'Arc Tangent is a sad case precisely because it was a better work than any of the creators could have produced on their own. All the collaborators brought different strengths to the table, and the result was greater than the sum of the parts. Unfortunately, the working relationship was miserable, and it collapsed after that one amazing issue.

But there are other cases where collaborators have worked together happily for years.

I don't mean to put down the work of the great one-man-band cartoonists, though. When they're good, it's a beautiful thing to see and read.

And I also like the idea that everyone should be able to try comics on their own, without worrying too much about how professional the results are. But here in this thread about comics distribution, i.e. the commercial side of the coin, those artistic and personal considerations may have to take more of a back seat sometimes.

I disagree that D'Arc Tangent was better than any Phil Foglio solo works.