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#581631 - 12/30/10 06:44 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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First you lay out an argument that Sim's amount of time away from the drawing board was perhaps irrelevant to where his interests would have taken him anyway (effective argument, but I've always been taught that idle hands are the devil's workshop, and I believe that); but then claim that Sim's working partner's contribution was "unrelated to the changes that Dave was going through in his thinking?" You might want to reconsider that.
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#581633 - 12/30/10 06:56 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Peter Urkowitz Online   happy
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No, that's exactly what I'm saying. Sim at the drawing board or Sim in the library, both end up with the same philosophy. But Sim in the library ends up with prettier backgrounds.

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#581634 - 12/30/10 07:00 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Peter Urkowitz Online   happy
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Note that Sim may be unusual in that respect. Some people would be affected differently by more time in the library.

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#581636 - 12/30/10 07:32 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Allen Montgomery]
ChrisW Online   content
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Anyone with eyes in their head marvels at the intricacy of Gerhard's backgrounds. You also don't know how Sim divided his time with or without Ger, so your "fact", as usual, is just loaded speculation.

Gerhard was someone who delivered art supplies and partied in similar circles to Sim at the time. They became aware of each other's work and Sim had just received an offer from Archie Goodwin to do short color stories for Epic. Sim invited Ger to do the colors and backgrounds for the stories and it worked so well that Ger began doing the backgrounds in the regular series. He also put toner on Cerebus himself for quite a long time, until Dave started doing it again towards the end.

At some point relative to the creator's rights summits of the 1980's, Sim increased Gerhard's financial participation in the property from a page rate (presumably a lucrative one) to a 60-40 split of ownership in the company and 50% of the assets - bank account, original art.


Edited by ChrisW (12/31/10 04:52 PM)
Edit Reason: I think I got the specific numbers wrong. Did you care?
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#581642 - 12/31/10 06:04 AM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Peter Urkowitz
Sim at the drawing board or Sim in the library, both end up with the same philosophy.

We have no way of knowing, obviously. And I was thinking it was more at a liquor store than a library.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#581680 - 01/01/11 02:10 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Stephen R Bissette]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Originally Posted By: Stephen R Bissette
Unfortunately, that gauntlet also took quite a toll on Gerhard, personally and professionally...

Like many of my old cronies, Ger loathes talking about what he did, and now really has a strong reaction to even considering drawing. It's sad, but typical for many; I've seen it with many pros. This industry, even under what fans/readers would consider "best circumstances," really can take it out of you.


Too true, evidently.

The strange thing is, I've met or heard a number of grizzled old comics pros who had two things in common.

One, they were now unhappy burn-outs who loathed The Comic Book Industry and had nothing but bad words for everyone in it.

Two, they invariably sought employment at one of the various private cartooning or art schools that specialize in cranking out the next generation of artists for GREEN LANTERN or THE MIGHTY THOR or what have you.

Given their feelings about the comics biz, I wonder if they ever suffered pangs of conscience as they cashed their eager young students' tuition checks.

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#581684 - 01/01/11 08:43 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Lawson]
Peter Urkowitz Online   happy
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Geez, Lawson, that's really not fair.

Just because somebody is burnt out on the industry, doesn't mean they don't still love comics themselves, and think it's a worthwhile medium, one that is worthwhile for students to pursue.

Every field gets people burnt out sometimes: police, social workers, what have you. But you still need to educate the next generation, in the hope that they will make things better.

Geez, should parents feel guilty for bringing children into this wicked world? Do you see what I'm saying?

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#581694 - 01/02/11 12:16 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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I don't know about CCS, but that's exactly the vibe at SCAD. Maybe the Sequential Art department was oriignally suggested by people with good intentions, but the people who made it a reality were only looking for another way to get kids (and their parents) into student loan debt.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#581742 - 01/03/11 09:47 AM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.
I don't know what CCS is. SCAD -- the Savannah College of Art and Design, Allen's alma mater -- is what I was specifically thinking of.

I lived in downtown Savannah next to SCAD in the mid-1990s.

There, I met a guy who mentioned that he used to draw comic books for a living. Being a fanboy, I asked him for more information on his career. His name was only vaguely familiar to me, maybe. But years earlier, he said, he had drawn a number of the better-known titles for Marvel, like Spider-Man and the Punisher, that sort of thing.

However, by this point, he was totally burned out on the comic book industry.

"They're all whores," he said. "Whores, liars and thieves."

I mentioned that when I was a kid, I'd wanted to draw comics.

"Ha!" he barked. "You would be better off peddling your ass in an alleyway down by the docks. You literally would get fucked less brutally! It's the same at all of the publishers. Big and small. The retailers aren't any better. And I hate to tell you this, but most of the fans are idiots."

I asked him what he did for a living now.

"I teach comic book art at SCAD," he said.

So for a paycheck, he was preparing the next generation of kids to go get fucked brutally. Heh! And I dunno what Allen's experience was, but from what I heard, SCAD tuition was not cheap. By the time you paid tuition and bought your supplies, you had dropped a wheelbarrow full of cash.

Since then, I have met or heard speak or read interviews with a few other burned-out old pros who now teach the craft to eager new kids. To a man, they hate the comic book industry and everything involved in it.

I don't begrudge them their bitterness -- the industry really has screwed some people, it really does attract some unsavory business types -- but jeez, if it's so friggin' awful, why send more people into its hungry maw? Do the honorable thing and cut ties completely. Go into advertising or textbook illustrations or something.

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#581749 - 01/03/11 12:25 PM Re: gerhard appreciation thread. [Re: Lawson]
shjonescrk Online   content
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For every comic book artist treated badly, I'd imagine you'd find one who was quite happy with the way he had been treated. It's probably the same in other industries such as advertising, journalism, IT, real estate etc as well.

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