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#589430 - 08/14/11 11:38 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Joe Lee]
jackdaw Offline
Member

Registered: 07/26/05
Posts: 512
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
I think you're conflating two different things.

There were a few people complaining about Tony's updates, claiming they were spam. Some, myself included, disagreed.


Yes. Now you've given my memory a nudge, I know you're right.

I was interested in rest of your post ( about pros and cons of professionals hanging out on these boards). I tend... alas.. to always look at things selfishly. And because I nearly always enjoy the contributions the pros make, I wish more still regularly contributed. But... blimey... as you say, its easy to see why any busy guy (or gal) would have to have different priorities.

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#589460 - 08/14/11 11:47 PM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: jackdaw]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Yeah, it'd be cool having some pros here. But it always seems to end the same way.

Some pro guy is either too thin-skinned to take any abuse, good natured or not, or even of he is able to dish-it-out, give as good as he gets, eventually he gets bored or annoyed with most of the conversations involving getting baited by some jerk with an agenda. So I don't think it's really possible, there are easier places to hang out now, like Twitter.

Erik Larsen seemed like a guy who could give as good as he got, but the seemingly endless accusations of tracing from one guy were probably enough to annoy or bore the crap out of him eventually. Seriously, like the guy or not, can you blame him or anyone else, for that matter for leaving. That had to have gotten pretty tedious.

I used to think of this place like a neighborhood bar, everybody is free to come in and say what they want. But the bartender or someone would keep the celeb guarded from the crazies. But the powers-that-be have created one of the few places online where people can feel free to speak their minds without fear of breaking some stupid rule or regulation. Many places are sycophants only. Or heavily moderated. Very few people have ever been kicked out of here that I can recall. And the ones who have were really pushing it.

This place is just a tough room. Everyone is free to say their piece, and no one gets special treatment. Fight if you gotta, but it's a tough room, and you're on your own. Most people don't like tough rooms. Some whine about it, and complain about how the old days were better, but then they don't do anything but whine. So screw em'



Edited by Joe Lee (08/15/11 12:00 AM)

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#589464 - 08/15/11 12:39 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Joe Lee]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6909
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Erik Larsen seemed like a guy who could give as good as he got, but the seemingly endless accusations of tracing from one guy were probably enough to annoy or bore the crap out of him eventually.

He could have dropped it at any point and I would have let it go. But his desire to prove me wrong overrode all else (mostly just admitting the truth). Byrne's influence is all over the excretions he calls his work. If Larsen would have just allowed me my opinion of Joe Sinnott's terrible inking, I might not have had to go there.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#589465 - 08/15/11 12:48 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Alexander Ness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3692
Loc: Minnesota
And Peter David could use a last name too.

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#589466 - 08/15/11 01:12 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Alexander Ness]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6909
Peter Allen David could have given Gerhard one of his three first names.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#589467 - 08/15/11 01:36 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Alexander Ness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3692
Loc: Minnesota
He should have.

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#589473 - 08/15/11 10:22 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Joe Lee]
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11936
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
At some point later Lawson and forgive me but I don't recall the context or the argument. But Lawson proved Tony to have been wrong on some point. The hi-jinks then ensued. Lawson even admitted he might have over did the victory celebration, others argued that Tony may have brought it on himself by his own actions in the past.


Yeah, in the end, Tony Isabella was my fault.

Tony had been ribbed a lot by other people about his daily blog promotions, because it usually was the only time he contributed to threads around here. He sort of Spammed. So I think he already was a little sensitive about criticism.

Then I came back from a comics convention and reported on a great anecdote related by Marv Wolfman and Len Wein about their early days in the comic book industry. They were accused -- wrongly -- of theft and were blacklisted for a short period.

Tony inexplicably jumped into that thread to say I was clearly making this up, that he doubted Len and Marv ever related any such tale. I've no idea why Tony took such a personal interest in this story about two other writers.

And I dunno why -- maybe I was having a bad day -- but that accusation sat wrong with me. So I found an online interview Len Wein had given on the same subject and posted it in the thread. Ta-da! See, I didn't make it up!

But Tony said something equally dismissive, something rude, unable to admit that he simply was wrong. And ... to rub his face in it ... I started a new thread called something like TONY ISABELLA GETS PROVEN TOTALLY WRONG!

That was the last we ever saw of Tony Isabella.

I shouldn't have done it. I should have stopped once I had established that Wein said what I said he said. Tony's attitude just stuck in my craw. Tony -- who got into a lot of Internet arguments -- could dish it out but not take it. I should have been the bigger man there.

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#589474 - 08/15/11 10:35 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Lawson]
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11936
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
On the subject of whether it would be better if comics pros still posted here -- sure it would be nice. But it's a free world and they don't, so eh, what are you gonna do? Impose a dress code? Hang out here if you want, don't if you don't.

Self-flagellation aside, I don't think it's always our fetid breath that drives people away. There simply are more options now. When Rick and Steve started Comicon, message boards were in their infancy. There weren't many places online that people interested in comic books could gather to talk. Comicon was one of the few.

Today, many comics publishers and comics pros maintain their own message boards. You wanna interact with Brian Bendis now, he's probably at the Bendis message board. You wanna interact with a DC Comics staffer now, he's probably at the DC Comics message board.

There only are so many hours in the day. Bendis probably won't run his own Web site and hang out at Comicon. Don't take it personally. Comicon, like some other third-party sites, is mostly where regular fans (the filthy rabble) hang out.

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#589476 - 08/15/11 10:57 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Allen Montgomery]
MightyQuin Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 1062
Loc: Tallahassee,FL
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Peter Allen David could have given Gerhard one of his three first names.


But, who will trade Tony Isabella for a girl's first name?!

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#589477 - 08/15/11 11:04 AM Re: Peter David is a great writer! [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Erik Larsen seemed like a guy who could give as good as he got, but the seemingly endless accusations of tracing from one guy were probably enough to annoy or bore the crap out of him eventually.

He could have dropped it at any point and I would have let it go. But his desire to prove me wrong overrode all else (mostly just admitting the truth). Byrne's influence is all over the excretions he calls his work. If Larsen would have just allowed me my opinion of Joe Sinnott's terrible inking, I might not have had to go there.
I gotta ask. How did he not allow you your opinion? You had your opinion, he had his. How did this not allow you yours?

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