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#594740 - 01/12/12 10:13 PM Re: Guantanamo [Re: Lawson]
ChrisW Online   content
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Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 10034
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Obama wasn't popular on the campaign trail in 2010, and he endorsed very few winners. Given that there isn't anything resembling improvement, it's not clear what he wants to be re-elected for. Or what he wants to do for four more years. Party with Johnny Depp and cover it up? Fly the dog somewhere because Michelle wants to prove she can do it? He's demonstrated little growth in the job (notwithstanding the very creditable portrait quoted above) so it's not clear why he wants another term anyway.

Re-election would mean he is, as I write this, less than ten months from being a lame duck. All the influence and cameraderie he's enjoyed this term will vanish now that he can never get re-elected again.

Given how many nations Obama has attacked and how many expansions he has made of post-9/11 policy (and then there's Gitmo) isn't it obvious he has access to vastly different information than the leftist rabble? GWB did not have some ultra-evil scheme to commit evil murder an' shit. It was not incompetence or corruption behind policy, it was people doing the absolute best they could under conditions that no one actually understands until they're in that seat.

But leftists just go blank when conceiving of Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, Rice, et al as humans who basically did the best they could at everything and better than 'most anybody else ever could have in their place. You know, like they're equal to Obama or something.

Try, just once, try not seeing right-wingers as ignorant hate-filled racist yadda yadda. Racial/ethnic prejudice interferes with accomplishing a mission just as much as refusing to carry a 2 in a math problem, so it's a defect to be eliminated on sight. You would see how many leftist shibboleths are pure illusion if only you stop this insistence that only malevolence in their hearts.

Don't believe me? Which party wants grandma to starve, throw people into the cold, hates black people, hates science, places doing the job over forming a union, etc? Those falsehoods reveal prejudice and negative stereotypes, pure and simple, on the part of the left and no one else.
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#594742 - 01/12/12 11:36 PM Re: Guantanamo [Re: ChrisW]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: ChrisW
Given that there isn't anything resembling improvement,...
I'm not particularly happy with a lot of things that Obama has done, or hasn't done, and I'm not particularly happy with how moderate and gutless he is, sometimes, especially when it comes to negotiating with the right, but he's certainly been better than any republican alternative. And he did accomplish some good...

If your a kid just out of college and haven't got that first job yet, you are now covered by your parents insurance still

If you have a pre-existing condition it can't be used by insurance companies to deny you insurance

Your insurance company can't drop you when you get sick

Your insurance company can't impose annual and lifetime limits

Presided over the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell

Appointed first Latina to the Supreme Court

Appointed first black Attorney General, Eric Holder

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

Extending benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees

Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act

US auto industry rescue plan (Romney was against this one if I recall)

Caught more Taliban Leaders in one month than Bush & Cheney did in six years. And gave the order to kill Bin Laden.

Ordered SEAL operation that resulted in killing of three terrorists and the release of US captain held by Somali pirates.

Did in Libya what Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld only promised to do in Iraq. Got in quick and painlessly, limited US involvement, were welcomed as liberators.


Edited by Joe Lee (01/12/12 11:45 PM)

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#594743 - 01/12/12 11:43 PM Re: Guantanamo [Re: ChrisW]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: ChrisW
Don't believe me? Which party wants grandma to starve, throw people into the cold, hates black people, hates science, places doing the job over forming a union, etc? Those falsehoods reveal prejudice and negative stereotypes, pure and simple, on the part of the left and no one else.
I don't accept your premise. Prove they are falsehoods.

Just because the phrasing doesn't put republicans in the best light possible, doesn't mean they are falsehoods.

I'll grant you they are sweeping generalizations, and and you can probably find individual exceptions, but they are not inherently false when describing republicans and republican policies in general.


Edited by Joe Lee (01/12/12 11:47 PM)

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#594744 - 01/12/12 11:52 PM Re: Guantanamo [Re: ChrisW]
Gerald Offline
Member

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1093
Originally Posted By: ChrisW
it's not clear what he wants to be re-elected for. Or what he wants to do for four more years. Party with Johnny Depp and cover it up? Fly the dog somewhere because Michelle wants to prove she can do it?

There was a Johnny Depp party cover up?

I think your conservative bias is clouding your reasoning.

Quote:
It was not incompetence or corruption behind policy, it was people doing the absolute best they could under conditions that no one actually understands until they're in that seat.

torturing people and calling it "enhanced interrogation" is not doing the best they could.


Quote:

Don't believe me? Which party wants grandma to starve, throw people into the cold, hates black people, hates science, places doing the job over forming a union, etc? Those falsehoods reveal prejudice and negative stereotypes, pure and simple, on the part of the left and no one else.


I'm pretty sure conservatives have just as many prejudices towards the Democratic party. You're just continuing the cycle of us vs them, and why we only have a 2 party system.
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#594745 - 01/12/12 11:56 PM Re: Guantanamo [Re: Gerald]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1093
Are you guys going to vote for Obama again even after he passed NDAA and SOPA?
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#594746 - 01/13/12 12:04 AM Re: Guantanamo [Re: Gerald]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Gerald
You're just continuing the cycle of us vs them, and why we only have a 2 party system.
Great point!

In most cases, other than wedge issues, there is only minor differences between the two parties, despite the rhetoric trying to make us think otherwise. And if we had true leaders we could find workable compromises on those wedge issues too.

Corporations shovel money to both sides, hedging their bets.

Both parties thrive under the stagnation.

It energizes their respective bases. It helps them get elected without having to take a risk and truly lead.

We have the wealth and technology to solve most of the worlds problems, we just lack the leadership. Or rather, we lack the ability to inspire and elect those people who could lead us better than those we get stuck with.

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#594747 - 01/13/12 12:07 AM Re: Guantanamo [Re: Gerald]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Gerald
Are you guys going to vote for Obama again even after he passed NDAA and SOPA?
What's the alternative, Romney? Ron Paul?

Any Democrat is truly the lesser of two evils.

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#594748 - 01/13/12 12:59 AM Re: Guantanamo [Re: Joe Lee]
Gerald Offline
Member

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1093
It depends on how much detrimental you think some of Obama's decisions have been. I'd rather throw my vote away with someone who doesn't take away American citizens rights.

But Romney supports NDAA as well as the other Republicans save for Paul. I'd vote for him but he won't get the nomination. I thought Huntsman was reasonable but again, supports NDAA.

I see the problem of voting for Ron Paul for the same reasons you do. But this is why these politicians pass these things. They think, "well what are my constituents going to do? Vote for the other party? Unlikely? 3rd party?? Hahaha, yeah right."

That's why they get away with it. No one likes voting against their own party. But then again too, the voting public knows more about unimportant stuff than what's going on with their local government. I can tell you what's going on in Earth 616 but didn't know what NDAA was until it passed.

I think I'm going to star a newspaper subscription. Spend less time watching Keeping Up With the Kardashians.

Do you know if there is any chance of these two new laws getting repealed?
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#594752 - 01/13/12 02:02 AM Re: Guantanamo [Re: Alexander Ness]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1093
@ChrisW

Which of the Republican candidates were/are you supporting?
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#594753 - 01/13/12 02:20 AM Re: Guantanamo [Re: Gerald]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Gerald
It depends on how much detrimental you think some of Obama's decisions have been. I'd rather throw my vote away with someone who doesn't take away American citizens rights.

But Romney supports NDAA as well as the other Republicans save for Paul.
That was my point. As bad as anything Obama does that I don't like, the Republicans would have probably done it as bad or worse. At least Obama does some things I like. Like not trying to stop the repeal of DADT, providing travel expenses to the families of fallen soldiers, or gets a director in place for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, prosecuting medical medical marijuana dispensaries was made low priority, or my favorite thing so far, he gave the queen an Ipod.

Huntsman and Paul both have serious flaws. And Romney is an empty suit blowing in the wind. I wish there were more options or at least a "none of the above, try again" option.

Plus I'm expecting SOPA won't survive any court challenges anyway...

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley...nconstitutional

http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/19/stanfor...k-the-internet/


Edited by Joe Lee (01/13/12 02:31 AM)

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