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#596117 - 02/22/12 12:42 PM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Lawson]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
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Realism is for kids!
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#596119 - 02/23/12 01:04 AM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Charles Reece]
Joe Lee Offline
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
I just read that Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc. is suing Dynamite over the company's "Lord of the Jungle" and "Warlord of Mars" comics.

Kind of a some strange, reverse, irony on several levels.

Film coming out, and the estate is suing people who are making money off of comics and not paying the creator or his estate. And Marvel is producing the John Carter comics legally authorized by the estate, directly or indirectly through Disney.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/02/16/owner-of-tarzan-sues-comics-companies-for-infringement/

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#596128 - 02/23/12 02:30 PM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Lawson]
shjonescrk Offline
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Registered: 10/31/03
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Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Lawson
I'm reading Kirby's Fourth World comics right now, which he wrote and drew in the early 1970s, not long after leaving Marvel.

For my money, they're as good as most of his Marvel work -- batshit insane in many respects, yes, but full of energy and creativity. I think the Fourth World failed, as much as anything, because it was too big and sweeping an epic than young comics readers were prepared for in 1970-whatever.


On artistic level, I think the Fourth Worlds fails because it is a bit of a mess. Sure there is some good stuff amongst it all - the Pact and Mr Miracle Issue 9 were especially good - but overall, I just didn't like it.

My favourite Kirby work post-Marvel was Kamandi but perhaps because I was reading them as they came out, I had no pre-conceptions whereas with the Fourth World, I was being told this was some unfinished masterpiece so when I did get to read in the 80s, I was not greatly impressed. When I read Kirby's work on Thor & FF, I read them in British B&W reprints as if the stories were being written now so again, I had no preconceptions.

It's clear to me that post-Marvel, Kirby needed a strong editor.

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#596129 - 02/23/12 03:18 PM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: shjonescrk]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Well, anyone who hails Jack Kirby's Fourth World comics as "a masterpiece" probably is doing it a disservice. These were comic books, not classic literature.

They were merely great fun and enormously creative. Also, if you could wait patiently (and understandably, young comics readers at the time generally did not), Kirby was sewing all of these seemingly disparate stories -- hippies, Jimmy Olsen and the Newsboy Legion, Darkseid, Mr. Miracle -- into one sprawling story.

I'm afraid of lot of the great old comics don't stand up so well after years of being described as masterpieces. What they were, mostly, was great comic books.

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#596131 - 02/23/12 10:04 PM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Lawson]
Peter Urkowitz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3231
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
That ERB, Inc. case is kinda odd, since the earliest John Carter books are in the public domain now, at least in the USA. The trademarks may never die, of course, but Dynamite has at least tried to distinguish their comics from authorized ERB products.

ERB Inc. has done pretty well for itself over the last century, and while I don't begrudge that family its success, eventually it will have to acknowledge the public domain. I wish that a century from now we could be having this discussion about KIRBY Inc. or FRIEDRICH Inc.

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#596133 - 02/24/12 03:02 AM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Carlton Donaghe Offline
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Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
I've been continuing to think about this, and I've come up with a solution.

Proposing a new business model for Marvel Comics.

I'd really like to know what you guys think of this idea. Especially, what are the downsides I didn't think of? Why wouldn't Marvel go for this idea?

And, it provides potential income from NEW Marvel work for every out of work creator... Steve Ditko included!
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#596134 - 02/24/12 03:19 AM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Carlton Donaghe]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
We've already got the Direct Market that requires a financial obligation three months before a product ships. Kickstarter adds another level to that faith-backed model by requiring a financial obligation *BEFORE WORK ON THE PRODUCT IS EVEN BEGUN*, and offers no guarantee of the work being done or the product ever shipping.

Before too long, we're going to see an example of a Kickstarter promotion that reaches its funding goal (perhaps even over-shooting it by a wide margin), the funds collected, and then the recipients of those funds disappears. It's a bad business model.
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#596138 - 02/24/12 10:22 AM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Can anyone tell me -- what do Marvel and DC pay for using the work of dead artists? Anything?

For instance, DC is currently publishing great collections of Bronze Age comics by Jack Kirby, Gene Colan, Don Newton, Jim Aparo and Marshall Rogers. All of them are dead. With some of them, such as Kirby, their widows are dead, too. They may have children or they may have left behind businesses to manage their estates. I don't know.

If Marvel or DC reprint Kirby's work today, does it owe anyone anything on Kirby's behalf? Or is it free and clear?

Not to sound cynical, but with DC, I can't help but notice that its reprint attentions seem to be lavished especially on artists no longer with us. I wonder if that's cheaper.

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#596150 - 02/25/12 06:00 AM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Lawson]
ChrisW Offline
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Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 10034
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
If more Bronze Age creators were dead, DC would probably lavish more attention on the classic comics they created.
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#596153 - 02/25/12 02:08 PM Re: Was Gary Friedrich screwed by Marvel? [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Joe Lee Offline
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Peter Urkowitz
That ERB, Inc. case is kinda odd, since the earliest John Carter books are in the public domain now, at least in the USA. The trademarks may never die, of course, but Dynamite has at least tried to distinguish their comics from authorized ERB products.

ERB Inc. has done pretty well for itself over the last century, and while I don't begrudge that family its success, eventually it will have to acknowledge the public domain. I wish that a century from now we could be having this discussion about KIRBY Inc. or FRIEDRICH Inc.
I'm not sure how I feel about this.

Usually it's some penniless creator suing Marvel or DC comics for some royalties, as their creation is about to star in a big budget movie. Like Superman, Captain America or Ghost Rider...

The comics are well within the rights of public domain use, as far as I understand it anyway, but I'm a huge supporter of creator's rights. And Burroughs didn't authorize these comics, but just look at your local bookstores has multiple unauthorized reprint versions of old novels now in public domain, including Tarzan and Barsoom.

Plus there was an dreadful, unauthorized movie version called Princess of Mars a few years back.

Is that any different than comics?

I feel like if I support people like Kirby and Friedrich I should be supporting the Burrough's estate on this one too. The owner at the LCS near me, thinks it's because the Dynamite comics are selling better than the Marvel ones. You'd think that would just make them angry at Marvel for not making better comics, or angry at Disney for making them use Marvel.

Seriously, if you see another company selling better, wouldn't he SMART thing be to tell Marvel make better books or we're going to approach Dynamite.

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