Definitely asshole behavior by Marvel/Disney.

And I predict it costs them almost nothing in lost sales. A few enraged fans will grumble. But nearly everyone who planned to buy a Marvel comic or see the new Spider-Man and Avengers movies and buy the T-shirts will go right ahead and do it, anyway.

Folks talk boycott all the time.

Then they hand over their money.

Hey, y'all. I've been meaning to get back here, but I saw this on another site and just had to come post.

How about if... someone indulged in a little civil disobedience? A little disobedience of the law for a good purpose?

I read that John Byrne is willing to write, pencil, ink, and letter a custom comic for $20K. I'm assuming you pick the characters, and he'll give you what you want, original art and all.

He's taking the view that (as long as you don't try to print it, I'm assuming) it's okay for him to sell art and story based on Disney properties.

Well, what if... some people... hypothetically... started a Kickstarter-type funding vehicle to pay out-of-work creators, like Friedrich, to create new Marvel material. An underground Marvel.

So that these hypothetical people weren't just boycotting Marvel, they were creating an alternative.

Well, Ghost Rider wasn't particularly good to begin with. I don't really want to donate for more of it.

After thinking about this over a nice steak dinner, I wanted to expand on something, not necessarily illegal.

What about a Kickstarter-type web-page for proposed comics, showing a cover, a creative team, and listing an amount that needs to be raised for the comic to get made. Basically, the amount would be the creative costs plus a cut for the business.

The "donations" would be a certain amount. For a higher level of donation, you get a page of original art.

The amount would need to be raised in a certain amount of time, or it doesn't happen. Once the financing goal is made, the creative team has two months to do the book (based on a 20 page comic) or everyone gets a refund. When the book is done, everyone gets a PDF of the comic.

I don't think piracy would matter if the creators get paid first. Sharing of PDF's could just be considered promotion.

Then, a print copy could be solicited in Previews. The art's paid for. There could be a way for the original "investors" to get a free copy of this, I'm sure.

I'm seeing it with high profile creators, people who could attract the sales based on their reputation. A page of proposed stories by Art Adams, Paul Smith, Steve Rude. The writer would probably have to do stories on spec, then the artist (and colorist) would do a cover. Other than that, the rest of the work is only done when the money's in the bank.

It would be a great way to do illegal Marvel and DC comics, but I think this could work for legitimate stories, too.

From Joe Lee's mouth to God's ears or at least Steve Niles! Niles has set up an authorized donation site for Friedrich here: http://www.steveniles.com/gary.html

There really seems to be a substantial fandom mobilization at work.

I've been non-stop facebooking and sharing, copy/pasting every link or post made by independent creator or professional artist on this. I've got lots of Steve Bissette's angry posts as well. Alex Ness is on my friends list and probably has seen the response as I have. I've been shouting "Occupy the Mouse", OTM. Lots of people are pissed about this...but like OWS, everyone's a bit scattered with what they want to do to fight this. Steve Niles already commented that his charity isn't about fighting anything just helping out Friedrich. I assume he still wants work, hahaha. Niles that is.

Others? Aren't worried about working for the House of Mouse and don't feel like remaining silent.

[after reading the first 'read this]
The contract states Marvel informed Friedrich that they only commission or purchse work on a work-for-hire basis and he signed it. Barring a good reason for waiting so long to sue them for nonpayment, he's lost Ghost Rider and unfortunately for him, this is just a nuisance suit.

On the issue of copyright renewal, a good case could be made for reclaiming the ownership of the original issues between Friedrich, Ploog and other credited contributors. The testimony on the creation of Ghost Rider was an incredible account of what went into (and, generally, always goes into) the creation of a comic book in one form or another.

And retroactively working the 50's western Ghost Rider into the intellectual property is something I don't have a clue how to answer. Marvel would have that, but how to divvy up the pieces?

[reading the rest]
Yep. Friedrich can't claim any of the trademark or copyright, but I don't see that barring him from selling drawings, saying (without legal authority) that he created Ghost Rider, which he essentially did. Even the court recognized that.

The testimony looks like a good document to use for determining intellectual property rights in the 21st century with something as vague as the comic book superhero. Prime originator (clearly Friedrich), prime visual designer (Ploog, the stereotypical 'don't bother me/just a job' artist), verbal contributors (Roy Thomas) as well as others like Stan Lee who gave a small-scale description of what any comic-producing entity goes through then, now or in 1935.

But Friedrich sued them. He signed all the documents and didn't protect his rights then, and after this one character was making big bucks, he sued. Paying Marvel's legal costs isn't nice, but it is fair.

Hi Carlton, I'm pretty sure that Kickstarter has been used to finance the printing of a number of comics already. I don't know if it's a sustainable model in the long term, but it has certainly been a nice shot in the arm for a number of artistic projects that otherwise wouldn't have had access to startup capital or credit.

But that's an entirely separate issue from whether there is any way to do stories or art featuring Marvel/DC characters without the authorization of those companies. Friedrich's Ghost Rider prints flew under the radar for years, and Marvel did nothing about them until Friedrich's lawsuit gave them a motive to go after him punitively.

Friedrich's prints were done privately, but that didn't protect him from having to give an accounting of his income from them when the court demanded it. Likewise, comics funded through Kickstarter or any similar website would be vulnerable to lawsuits from Marvel and DC, with the added downside of there being electronic evidence of how much cash they've collected, which could be used against them in court.

So while I'm sympathetic to artists who want to sell their work outside of the big company plantations, I don't think there's any real way to guarantee their right to do so, if they are using corporate characters.

The Big Two have been willing to look the other way in the cases of convention Artists Alleys, even online commission sketches and artist's sketchbooks. They've granted permission for charity comics, like for the Hero Initiative and CBLDF. But they can clamp down at any time, as we have seen here with Friedrich. And I think the kind of unauthorized Kickstarter comics that you are proposing here would also cause them to unleash their legal hounds.

I wish they would leave Friedrich alone, and I wish they would pay him decent royalties for the use of the character he created. But the courts are on their side.

BULL FUCKING SHIT IT IS!!! This shit was before the Copyright legal protection act of 1976 wasn't it? Fuck that noize man.

I like the way you think!

But think more plural.