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#596093 - 02/21/12 12:56 PM Fun with Milton Friedman
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
This is fun:



Uncle Milt suggests that black poverty would be helped by businesses being able to pay them less, not more -- that said poverty is the result, not of the people, but government intervention. Not once does he mention that said intervention was the result of classic liberals making arguments like chattel slavery being a sign of liberty, turning those arguments into law, and that many of "the people" supported the law. Now, he's always making the point that capitalism isn't a zero-sum game, but is there ever an instance where support for radical capitalism isn't based on the exclusion of some group from the argument as to its benefits?
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#596094 - 02/21/12 01:17 PM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Charles Reece]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
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Registered: 12/19/05
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He's so right about welfare creating poverty. Remember how we did away with federal welfare programs in the 90s, and now there's no more poor people? Such wisdom he had for us.
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#596095 - 02/21/12 02:08 PM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Friedman says gub'mint is the problem, unless he needs a job.

During the Great Depression, young Milton Friedman was unable to find academic employment. So in 1935, he followed his friend W. Allen Wallis to Washington, D.C., where President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal was becoming "a lifesaver for many young economists."

In the years that followed, Friedman supported himself and his family by working for the National Resources Committee, which was then creating a large consumer budget survey; the National Bureau of Economic Research; the University of Wisconsin–Madison; and the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

As a Treasury spokesman during World War Two, Friedman advocated a Keynesian policy of taxation, and during this time he helped to invent the payroll withholding tax system that remains in effect today.

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#596105 - 02/22/12 02:06 AM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
That's a good point. I went to a museum (privately owned, of course) to see what one of these poor black people looked like. Evidently, Compton was once filled with what were called "gangs" that identified themselves with the colors of the two major political parties in the US.
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#596107 - 02/22/12 02:21 AM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Lawson]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
In fairness, Lawson, once economic scholars start thinking for themselves, they can get funding from big business.
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#596113 - 02/22/12 10:20 AM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Charles Reece]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Charles Reece
In fairness, Lawson, once economic scholars start thinking for themselves, they can get funding from big business.


Heh!

I'm 40 years old, I have worked since age 15, and I've never collected a single paycheck from a government entity. I've been private sector all the way.

And every day, I hear conservative politicians bash the gub'mint -- the goddamned, worthless gub'mint! -- and they have held public office for their entire lives. Taxpayers have provided their salaries, benefits and pensions.

I can think of a few Republican leaders in Congress who haven't been off a government payroll since they graduated college in the 1960s. But that goddamned gub'mint!

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#596120 - 02/23/12 01:23 AM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Lawson]
Joe Lee Offline
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
I saw a fun chart on msnbc last weekend. It showed areas in the USA with the highest numbers of people that received government or other assistance for their income, which included everything from welfare, food stamps, free meals at schools, to government and publicly supported medicine, and clinics like planned parenthood, and it showed that the states with the areas of highest concentrations were largely red states.

Meaning the people benefiting from government and other sorts of assistance for their income are largely poor white republicans. One of the pundits jokingly feigned outrage that his urban, liberal, black, academic elite taxpayer dollars were going from NYC to the largely republican, rural south.

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#596121 - 02/23/12 09:32 AM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Joe Lee]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Meaning the people benefiting from government and other sorts of assistance for their income are largely poor white republicans.


This is old news, but still, very true.

Harvard used to do a study on occasion looking at federal tax payments from state to state. Invariably, the left-leaning Blue states were the donor states -- their citizens sent more money to Washington in taxes than they collected in federal services and benefits -- and the right-learning Red states were the debtor states, or welfare mooches, if you wish, sucking more federal goodies from Washington than they contributed in taxes.

Truth is, the states that scream about states' rights the loudest cannot support themselves. They depend on New York, California and other smart, hard-working states to give them handouts.

Similarly, the most conservative person I know on Comicon relies on the federal government to provide him with a paycheck, health benefits and room and board. He could not survive outside of Uncle Sam's sheltering embrace.

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#596122 - 02/23/12 11:53 AM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Lawson]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
I just ran across this:
Quote:
In The Tea Party and the Remaking of Republican Conservatism, Theda Skocpol and Vanessa Williamson, Harvard scholars who have interviewed adherents of the new insurgency in different regions of the country, report that

fully 83% of South Dakota Tea Party supporters said they would prefer to “leave alone” or “increase” Social Security benefits, while 78% opposed cuts to Medicare prescription drug coverage, and 79% opposed cuts in Medicare payments to physicians and hospitals…. 56% of the Tea Party supporters surveyed did express support for “raising income taxes by 5% for everyone whose income is over a million dollars a year.”

These views, which are aligned with those of moderate Republicans and Democrats, corroborate the findings in a 2010 New York Times poll of Tea Partiers, which concluded: “Despite their push for smaller government, they think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers.”

[...]

With one exception, Skocpol and Williamson write, “not a single grassroots Tea Party supporter we encountered argued for privatization of Social Security or Medicare,” pet projects of a conservative legislator like Paul Ryan and of organizations like FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity. The Republican aspirants have adapted to these internal contradictions. They attack Obama for increasing government spending and at the same time for trimming $500 billion from Medicare.

The impracticality of this war against government, which in fact offers no serious plan to scale government back, suggests that the conservative populism of our moment is rooted not in a coherent worldview so much as in a “mood” or atmosphere of generalized, undifferentiated protest.
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#596123 - 02/23/12 11:58 AM Re: Fun with Milton Friedman [Re: Charles Reece]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Many Tea Party activists with whom I've spoken want government spending to be cut elsewhere, for other people.

The government spending that benefits themselves, their families and their communities is their just due! What they don't like, see, is all that money going to blacks and Mexicans.

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