I was talking to same friends earlier, and I noticed something:

The Republicans are supposed to be a party of Protestant Evangelicals.

Protestants are supposed to make up the main form of Christianity in this country.

It's already been noted that, for the first time in American history, there are no Protestants on the Supreme Court.

Well, guess what? In the race for the president, there's only one Protestant in the race: Barack Obama.

The Republicans don't have a Protestant in the race!* There's two Catholics and a Mormon!

Although I haven't heard anyone notice it yet (they might have, I just haven't heard), I'll bet that's a real factor in the party's inability to fully embrace a nominee.

I'll also surmise that's another reason for Republicans to attempt to confuse the issues regarding Obama's Christianity: His beliefs are really more closely aligned to what the average Republican claims theirs are (except Obama lives his a little better than Republican politicians do). For this reason, Republicans would want to hide or obscure that fact.

* Ron Paul doesn't count. Sorry. Ron Paul never counts.

Don't worry, Latinos are going to fix that.

Most (about 63%) Latinos are Catholic.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/17404/where-hispanic-americans-stand-religion-politics.aspx

That's what he's saying.

Oh, sorry. Yeah, I get it now.

Meanwhile,



Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/03/1.../#ixzz1p2ksQEAt

While the numbers who think Obama is a Muslim can be explained through a mixture of ignorance and spite, I think there is a slightly different dynamic in the small numbers who think he is a Christian. There seems to be a general trend of Christians defining what a "Christian" is in a very narrow way, and denying that somebody is a Christian if they don't match whatever criteria are important to them personally. So even if they acknowledge that Obama goes to a Christian church, that may not be Christian enough for them, for whatever reason.

With respect, Carlton, while I understand that you were trying to turn that trend around with your other thread about how the modern GOP don't act like Christians should act, I think it falls into the same trap to some extent. To real non-Christians, this internal struggle over who is or is not a true Christian looks like petty infighting. Sorta like disputes between Shia and Sunni muslims, it looks counterproductive from the outside.

Hey, Quin. Coming from a small town near the border, I'm used to living in a majority Latino population. I'd say Mr. Urkowitz' stats are about right. There are a lot of Latinos, Hispanics, Hispanos, and Mexicans who are not Catholic. There's one group that are fairly anti-Catholic, where the women and girls all wear long dresses, the men and boys are kings, and their beliefs are very fundamental.

And Mr. Urkowitz, I see the problem a little differently. While many try to excuse the Republicans and equate them with Democrats by saying, "Yeah, well, all politicians are the same," I'm making the point that, no, they are not, not by any stretch of the imagination.

The Republicans have labeled the Democrats as a "godless" party and themselves as "the Party of Values." There could be nothing farther from the truth.

Regardless of whether we're talking about being Christian, being Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, are you going to tell me that there was ANY morality whatsoever in Limbaugh's principles? Because, if there are, I need you to educate me, because I don't see them. I see a glorification of selfishness and conspicuous consumption, neither of which I see as particularly moral.

And to step away from the Christian faith, I would not call a Jewish American particularly moral for abandoning this country to go live in a settlement on Palestinian land, especially if they're going to going to insist on segregated sidewalks, and spit on schoolgirls and call them whores.

That's not really being a Jew, is it? I'd be ashamed to say I shared any kinship with such a pig of a human being. There's absolutely no defense for what they do.

Or what about the Muslims? Are there any real men among them or what? They'll fight a non-Muslim to the death, but they'll allow the most vile scum of the earth rape their daughters as long as that scum calls themselves a Muslim.

I'm sorry, but I won't respect these people and pretend that they are whatever they want to claim themselves to be when it's obvious they are not.

That's one of the great things about being a Jew, is that even though I haven't been inside a synagogue in years, I'm just as much a part of the tribe as anyone else, and nobody can kick me out. And I know very well that lots of my people are jerks and assholes, but they are still my people. I don't believe in excommunication or disinheritance under any circumstances.

My definition of a Jew has nothing to do with morality. Now, I might occasionally make the argument that somebody is not acting in accordance with Jewish principles, and they should think about that and change. But that's totally different from saying "You're not a real Jew for xyz reasons." I may be a little ashamed to have to share my religion with zealot settlers who are kicking Palestinians off their land, but I'm stuck with them, and therefore my only recourse is to work to put things right.

And no, I don't see Limbaugh as moral in any sense. But he's still human, still American, still part of my extended family in that sense.

Likewise, I just laugh when the GOP call themselves the party of faith and they try to say that others are godless. They're just playing a rigged game, and rather than try to beat them at that game, I simply choose not to play. Let them call themselves whatever they want. You are right to call them out on their hypocrisy and inconsistency. We could even argue that they are devaluing language through their sloppy and inaccurate use of labels both positive and negative. (For instance, Obama is supposed to be both "Socialist" and "Fascist" at the same time? That's so ridiculous it's hilarious!) But I don't think we should try to kick them out of the club just because they set a bad example. That's not my understanding of what being in the club means.

Mr. Urkowitz, my study of the Pentateuch and Haftorah has led me to believe that, while you may be stuck with the Ultra-Orthodox, you are indeed their keeper, and, as a Jew, are responsible for calling them to repentance. That is your duty. So yes, you are correct in saying that you're stuck with them and your only recourse is to put them right.

As an atheist, I would say that, while the whole Jewish or Christian thing may be a fiction, you are still correct in saying that, because it is true for all your extended family--whether they be the Zionists in Israel or your lost cousins, the Mormons and Native Americans, or even the Eskimo and the African.

The truth of what you are saying is that we are all stuck with each other, and it is our responsibility to put things right.

So, we can't sit it out.

In defense of this, I turn to something you might enjoy. We're both about the same age, and being American cohorts, we have a lot in common. Here's a quote from THOR #154, by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby at the peak of their creative collaboration:

The story is building to an epic battle between Thor and Mangog. In the midst of this, Thor runs into a group of Hippies (this being about 1967-68). They question why he battles, when they have "dropped out."
He tells them,

"Heed you now my words-- 'Tis not by dropping out-- but by plunging in-- into the maelstrom of life itself-- that thou shall find thy wisdom!

"There be causes to espouse!! There be battles to be won!

"There be glory and grandeur all about thee-- if thou wilt but see!

"Aye, there be time enow for thee to disavow thy heritage-- yea, thou mayest drop out fore'er-- once Hela herself hath come for thee!

"But, so long as life endures-- thou must live it to the full! Else, thou be unworthy of the title-- MAN!

"Verily, they have eyes, but seeth not! When life doth seem too much to bear-- 'Tis not the time to renounce the struggle!

"The ostrich hides-- the Jackal flees-- but man-- and god-- do persevere!"

When we have a political party that wants to turn the clock back on women's rights-- and do it in the name of religious liberty of all things-- when they want to teach ignorance in schools in the name of religious liberty-- when you have Ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel who want segregated sidewalks and economic aid from America both... in the name of religious liberty-- when you have Muslims who throw acid in little girls faces for wanting to got to school, and do it in the name of their god--

The time has come to tell our brother, 'Enough.'

Love that Thor quote!