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#596738 - 04/09/12 04:49 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Real Hunter, Alll the time.]
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Originally Posted By: Real Hunter, Alll the time.
On a different note, maybe a 20 page proposal if wanting to show off artists to the big two like Marvel and D.C. rather than 20 pages from each artists plus production work etc. 2 pages to tell your spin each plus your set up pitch in one page, cover letter etc.


Hunter, I make it very clear to the artists that-- regardless of the suggestions I make-- I only want them to do the amount of work they feel comfortable or can spare.

There's no way I'd ask an artist for 20 pages of anything. I'm telling them that, in a perfect world, we'd want character drawings (that could also be used for logos of the lead characters), a couple of promotional-type drawings, maybe some drawings of settings or props. But as far as sequential art, that's not even a part of the conversation at this point. I don't see the point in doing sequentials for the Marvel or Saturday morning proposals.

It would only be after our exercise with the Marvel and Hanna-Barbera characters, working with whatever artists decide they would like to do something original, where we'd be doing actual comics pages. Then it would make sense.

But you're right-- maybe it would be better for me to put a lot of work into creating an intellectual property for people I don't know and have never met face to face, and just jump right into to a big, complicated project cold. You might have something there.
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#596739 - 04/09/12 04:50 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Carlton Donaghe]
Real Hunter, Alll the time. Offline
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Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 93
I think one of the main issues is that your proposal while a mighty effort is just too large for Americans to do free work. But as you've said you got a good group of across the seas/gulfs art people so good luck and keep us posted!
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#596740 - 04/09/12 04:53 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Carlton Donaghe]
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
But to get to the actual point of your suggestion, Hunter...

If I was going to do a proposal with multiple artists, where doing sequentials was just going to be necessary,

then yes, I would write something where each artist would draw only 3-5 pages, and use the story to tie the pages all together into create one large, coherent story.
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Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#596741 - 04/09/12 04:54 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Carlton Donaghe]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
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Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2822
Originally Posted By: Carlton Donaghe
Okay, I'm talking to Americans again.


What makes you say that? I don't know about the rest of these chuckleheads, but I'm from Fake France.

Quote:
I'm getting some great responses from this, and we're already discussing original material.


Well, that's probably more fun than actually producing original material.

Quote:
Besides, I consider Marvel characters public domain characters.


That's cool. It's not like words have meanings or anything.

Quote:
For me, writing the Marvel gig was like showing you I know how to play the songs you like, even while putting my own interpretation on it. You can tell that I'm playing "Stairway to Heaven" or "Farmer John," and you can see what I'm doing with it.


If what you want is a Zeppelin cover band, then... okay. Have fun in your garage, I guess.

Kind of a dumb dream, though.
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"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
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#596742 - 04/09/12 04:55 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Real Hunter, Alll the time.]
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Originally Posted By: Real Hunter, Alll the time.
I think one of the main issues is that your proposal while a mighty effort is just too large for Americans to do free work.


And I've really been ashamed to see that.
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Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#596743 - 04/09/12 04:59 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Originally Posted By: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette
Originally Posted By: Carlton Donaghe
I'm getting some great responses from this, and we're already discussing original material.


Well, that's probably more fun than actually producing original material.


Actually, I wrote two original short stories over the weekend, and put together some suggested graphic designs for their presentation, as well as setting up some online stuff for us. The artists have been showing me some great sketches. The little cartoons the French guy is sending are beginning to intimidate me.

But hey, don't let your preconceived notions of what another person you don't really know is doing stop you from firing off snarky, uninformed comments.
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Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#596744 - 04/09/12 05:01 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Carlton Donaghe]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2822
Originally Posted By: Carlton Donaghe
Actually, I wrote two original short stories over the weekend, and put together some suggested graphic designs for their presentation, as well as setting up some online stuff for us.


Fantastic! Why bother with your crappy cover band, then?

Writing a 200 page PDF about someone else's comics has gotta be a time sink.
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"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
- Ed Gauthier, DCP

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#596745 - 04/09/12 05:06 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Carlton Donaghe]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
This was from Craig's List a few years back, I assume it was from some whiney American...

Originally Posted By: Craigs list post
Every day, there are more and more Craigs List posts seeking “artists” for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs. More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.

But what they’re NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.

To those who are “seeking artists”, let me ask you; How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? …none?

More than likely, you don’t know any. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be posting on craigslist to find them.

And this is not really a surprise.

In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators. There are eleven times as many certified mechanics. There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.

So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free? Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?

Would you offer a neurosurgeon the “opportunity” to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor? (Maybe you could offer him “a few bucks” for “materials”. What a deal!)

Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?

If you answered “yes” to ANY of the above, you’re obviously insane. If you answered “no”, then kudos to you for living in the real world.

But then tell me… why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?

Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen. As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person. In short, it makes you look like a twit.

A few things you need to know;

1. It is not a “great opportunity” for an artist to have his work seen on your car/’zine/website/bedroom wall, etc. It IS a “great opportunity” for YOU to have their work there.

2. It is not clever to seek a “student” or “beginner” in an attempt to get work for free. It’s ignorant and insulting. They may be “students”, but that does not mean they don’t deserve to be paid for their hard work. You were a “student” once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real world? Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.

3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by other people, whether it’s one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement. Neither is the right to add that work to their “portfolio”. They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should. It’s not compensation. It’s their right, and it’s a given.

4. Stop thinking that you’re giving them some great chance to work. Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them. There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people who possess these skills.

5. Students DO need “experience”. But they do NOT need to get it by giving their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway. Do you think professional contractors list the “experience” they got while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother’s house when they were seventeen?

If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would be able to pay for the services it received. The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.

6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.) Some will ask you to “submit work for consideration”. They may even be posing as some sort of “contest”. These are almost always scams. They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the “contest”, or be “chosen” for the gig, and find what they like most. They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications to it, and claim it as their own. You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest. The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these ads. This is speculative, or “spec”, work. It’s risky at best, and a complete scam at worst. I urge you to avoid it, completely. For more information on this subject, please visit www.no-spec.com.

So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are “spec” gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.

And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free… please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you’re accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue.

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#596746 - 04/09/12 05:11 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
Carlton Donaghe Offline
Member

Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 1619
Loc: the American Desert
Well, I was desperate to get the crap out of my system. A couple of years ago, I realized I had written about 9,500 pages of pure dee-old shit, and only had a few hundred pages to go. That Marvel project topped if off.

Plus, it cured me of reading the damn things. There's nothing coming out of the House of Ideas that interests me more than my own version, so, it's like, fuck it, I guess I'm done.

But shit, what's gettin' me is that I'm having to EXPLAIN this. I know you guys are looking at what I'm doing, barely able to contain yourselves, but, well, you should try seeing it from this perspective. Oh that's right-- you're Americans... you might not be able to do that.
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Carlton Donaghe
somewhere along the Rio Grande

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#596747 - 04/09/12 05:19 PM Re: Seeking Talented Artists for All-Ages Proposal [Re: Carlton Donaghe]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2822
Originally Posted By: Carlton Donaghe
Well, I was desperate to get the crap out of my system. A couple of years ago, I realized I had written about 9,500 pages of pure dee-old shit, and only had a few hundred pages to go. That Marvel project topped if off.


I apologize for assuming you had wasted time on a 200 page PDF. Clearly, I underestimated the amount of time you're capable of wasting.

Quote:
But shit, what's gettin' me is that I'm having to EXPLAIN this. I know you guys are looking at what I'm doing, barely able to contain yourselves, but, well, you should try seeing it from this perspective. Oh that's right-- you're Americans... you might not be able to do that.


Still don't know why you assume I'm an American.

Either way though, we understand your perspective. We just don't respect it.

It's not very respectable, you see.
_________________________
"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
- Ed Gauthier, DCP

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