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#597231 - 05/03/12 03:20 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Joe Lee]
Joe Lee Offline
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#597232 - 05/03/12 03:29 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Gerald]
Joe Lee Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gerald
I think he makes good arguments like saying that Swamp Thing and Superman were intended to be serialized, but not Watchmen. That by not only writing a prequel to it, but turning it into a mega event it DOES feel like it's taking something away from the original, by possibly, eventually turning into another Batman comic. I say this because when asked, Didio said that he's not ruling out an ongoing Watchmen series if the demand is high enough.
I'm sure Victor Hugo never intended there to be a sequel to Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Hans Christian Andersen never intended The Little Mermaid to have a series of movies and a TV series, but that didn't stop Disney from making all that stuff.

Does any of that crap take anything away from the originals?

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#597237 - 05/03/12 04:24 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Joe Lee]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
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I don't want to get into the whole karma thing, but I see what you're getting at. Alan Moore got his career established, in American comics, by working on characters created by writers and artists who were ripped off from potential royalties and ownership.

He says that that he was wrong to do that but it's easy to say that AFTER you've been established and AFTER you made money from Watchmen, and selling the film rights to FROM HELL and LOEG, and are able to live comfortably.

In regards to The Little Mermaid or stories like that, Moore would argue that those stories and characters are in the public domain, and therefore, up for grabs. However, if they weren't public domain, he'd probably still use them but change the name to "The Li'l Watersprite."

I remember Alan Moore revamped Rob Liefeld's Awesome Comics universe and populated it with a history of original characters like ZanTar King of the Jungle, 30s pulp hero John Prophet the Man of Marble, and a WWII group called Battlin' Baron & the Roarin' Roughnecks among others. Then there was Supreme who was pretty much Superman, and Professor Night and Twilight the Girl Marvel who was supposed to stand in for Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder.


Edited by Gerald (05/03/12 04:43 PM)
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#597238 - 05/03/12 04:33 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Strenuous Teddy]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Originally Posted By: Strenuous Teddy
Well that issue is a little confused because Moore wasn't limiting his criticism to Watchmen when it came to the "old ideas" jab.


I don't think anyone can, with a straight face, argue that DC and Marvel are producing new ideas.

This summer's hot projects: WATCHMEN and AVENGERS VS. X-MEN, just like in the mid-1980s, when I was a kid. This year's hot characters: Batman, the Justice League, Green Lantern, the X-Men and the Avengers, all of which are a zillion years old.

If Moore wasn't the last writer at DC creating anything new, he was close to it.

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#597239 - 05/03/12 04:40 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Lawson]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
No one here is arguing that. But when he criticizes the practice of taking other peoples stories and characters, when he did just that, and continues to do that, it comes off as a little bit egotistical and hyporcritical.

He's criticizing Geoff Johns for adding to an Alan Moore Green Lantern story, when he himself did the same thing when he took a John Broome Green Lantern story of Abin Sur("Earth's First Green Lantern") and added to it.
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#597241 - 05/03/12 04:53 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Gerald]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Originally Posted By: Gerald
He's criticizing Geoff Johns for adding to an Alan Moore Green Lantern story, when he himself did the same thing when he took a John Broome Green Lantern story of Abin Sur("Earth's First Green Lantern") and added to it.


Comparing the careers of Alan Moore and Geoff Johns, I think you'll find that Moore has pulled more ideas out of his head in any given year than Johns has in a lifetime.

By the time Moore wrote a few Green Lantern Corps tales, writers other than John Broome had used Abin Sur, just as writers other than Jerry Siegel mentioned baby Kal-El being rocketed to Earth from the doomed planet Krypton. These are key elements in the origin stories of the franchise heroes.

Mogo, on the other hand, was a minor player Moore invented for one cute story in 1985. The amount of blood that Johns and others since have gotten from this stone is amazing. And this is hardly the only Moore story at DC to be milked and milked and milked by lesser talents.

Of course, anything Moore created in the DC Universe is fair game. But mocking Johns for being a third-rate writer also is fair game.

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#597242 - 05/03/12 04:56 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Lawson]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
Originally Posted By: Lawson

And since you mention INFINITE CRISIS, although it was well within DC's rights to crap out a sequel to its own company crossover from 1985, which had been written by committee and starred every character it owned at the time, every fanboy I knew rolled his eyes at the sequel and called it creatively pathetic.


If the internet existed in the 80s, I'd like to know the opnions of Silver Age readers on a year long story based on a 10-page "Crisis on Earth 2" story.
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#597243 - 05/03/12 05:05 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Lawson]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
Originally Posted By: Lawson

Comparing the careers of Alan Moore and Geoff Johns, I think you'll find that Moore has pulled more ideas out of his head in any given year than Johns has in a lifetime.

But I'm not comparing the overall careers of Moore and Johns, and neither is Moore from the interview I'm referring to.

He's criticizing the practice.

Quote:
These are key elements in the origin stories of the franchise heroes.


Yes, and a previous writer had already written a story explaining why Abin Sur started using a spaceship to travel and how he died.
But Alan Moore chose to retcon that, and write another story explaing Abin Sur using a spaceship.

Quote:
Mogo on the other hand, was a minor player Moore invented for one cute story in 1985. The amount of blood that Johns and others since have gotten from this stone is amazing.
So other writers shouldn't use minor characters created by other writers? Only the ones that are firmly established in key elements of the title character?

I dislike Johns as a writer, but he's created many more characters for Green Lantern than Alan Moore, and used them more much more prominently and frequently than Mogo.
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#597244 - 05/03/12 05:06 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Gerald]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Gerald
I'd like to know the opnions of Silver Age readers on a year long story based on a 10-page "Crisis on Earth 2" story.


Except you're wrong.

The name CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS was a play on the "Crisis" title invariably used in the summertime JLA/JSA team-ups -- year after year -- not just in one story.

Also, none of the JLA/JSA team-ups featured characters called the Monitor, the Anti-Monitor, Harbinger, Pariah and all the rest acting out their (not very well written) dramas against the backdrop of the end of DC's parallel universes and the deaths of a couple dozen characters.

The specific comic you're referring to had the JLA and JSA teaming up to fight the Crime Champions. It had about as much to do with CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS as this month's BATMAN has to do with the July 1998 BATMAN: They're both comics with Batman in them.

It's weird that you think this is just like BEFORE WATCHMEN.

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#597245 - 05/03/12 05:10 PM Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon [Re: Gerald]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Gerald
So other writers shouldn't use minor characters created by other writers? Only the ones that are firmly established in key elements of the title character?


Gah!

Gerald, believe whatever you want. Some of us are going to give Alan Moore's opinions on the subject more weight than yours.

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