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#597002 - 04/28/12 02:49 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: MBunge]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
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Wait, so the Avengers movie doesn't even list Kirby's name in the credits? Kirby does get a "created by" credit along with Stan. Mike Yes and no. Maybe you've seen it and can confirm, but from what I've heard Kirby will be credited on the closing crawl only. Not in the opening credits. I hope that's not accurate. My understanding is there was some confusion over whether or not his name would be included at all, despite the film’s press kit, Kirby’s name didn't appear on any promotional materials and then adding fuel to the fire was Stan Lee's cryptic response when asked about Kirby's credit, “I don’t know how to answer that, because in what way would his name appear?”
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#597003 - 04/28/12 03:13 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: Joe Lee]
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Member
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
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I know the issue is about exploiting the man's work, long after he's been on the payroll. The question I have regarding Moore's complaints about Watchmen prequels, except for time, how are they any different than his own use of characters he didn't create nor get permission to use, in LOEG or Terra Incognita?
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#597004 - 04/28/12 05:19 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: Joe Lee]
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Member
Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10002
Loc: us of fuckin' a
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He has a bad way of putting it: he's "stealing" rather than "adapting" them. What I gather he means is that he's appropriating them for his own individual aesthetic purpose, not mining the same terrain as the creator of the characters. For Moore, a film adaptation is aesthetically worthless, but borrowing tropes or characters or ideas (as long as it's been disconnected from the originator's usage) is part of what art is all about. There was a discussion of this, with links, elsewhere. And here's my problem with Moore's position.
Edited by Charles Reece (04/28/12 05:27 PM)
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.
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#597006 - 04/28/12 08:49 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: Charles Reece]
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Member
Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6915
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Please tell us what exact issues of any Charlton comics Moore's Watchmen story was adapting, extrapolating upon, sequelizing, prequelizing or even referring to. Like Moore said, he stole the characters to tell his own story. That's his basic point.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit. If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator." — Bob Kane
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#597007 - 04/28/12 09:38 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: Allen Montgomery]
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Member
Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10002
Loc: us of fuckin' a
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I wasn't thinking of the Watchmen (which are about as original or not original as most superheroes), but The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which as a team make a collective sequel to their original creators' works. This is particularly true within Moore's philosophy, since these characters really exist in idea space (that's really Mina, really the Invisible Man, etc.). I don't see an aesthetic problem with other creators doing prequels to Moore's books. The problem is based on his immoral treatment by DC, not some aesthetic notion that other people should never do a Superman story if they're not the creators. That's a pretty silly idea, and one that contradicts Moore's own past and theory of creativity.
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.
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#597009 - 04/28/12 10:28 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: Charles Reece]
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Member
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11954
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
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I saw a Watchmen lunchbox today.
No kidding, an actual Watchmen lunchbox-and-thermos set, featuring Dr. Manhattan. No blue penis, though.
Please let me be a fly on the wall the first time Alan Moore sees this lunchbox.
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#597010 - 04/28/12 10:35 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: Joe Lee]
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Member
Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 389
Loc: ON, CAN
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Other than when he mistakenly says "Jack Kirby co-created most of the cast of that film, alongside Stan Lee and others." He was obviously meaning to say the "characters" not "cast." There is a definite resemblance between Kirby and Mark Ruffalo.
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#597011 - 04/28/12 10:58 PM
Re: Actually, no, it was Joe Simon
[Re: Charles Reece]
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Member
Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6915
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The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which as a team make a collective sequel to their original creators' works. The novelty is simply in shoving them all into one goulash, not in continuing their stories or creating new canonical continuity. I've read very few of the original works, so I don't know how well Moore's story dovetails into them.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit. If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator." — Bob Kane
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