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#597144 - 05/02/12 02:12 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Joe Lee]
Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
Perfect example of exaggeration. Par for the course & still pathetic.
Well yeah, it's a satirical piece, it's exaggeration for the purpose of ridicule, and humorous but constructive social criticism.


I don't see anything constructive in that particular exaggeration.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Do you feel it's an inaccurate commentary on Byrne's statements themselves...


Indeed I do. The essence of the exaggeration is that JB bases his opinions on things he hasn't experienced. The fact is that JB's opinions reflect ONLY the things that he HAS experienced. In regards to The Avengers film, JB doesn't like certain aspects of the film as presented & therefore has apparently decided not to endorse it or plan to see it in the theaters.

Nowhere has he stated categorically that the film, in it's entirety, is "crap."

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
...this isn't the first time he's taken such extreme views about movies he hasn't seen is it?


What exactly is extreme about JB's views?

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#597145 - 05/02/12 02:31 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
What exactly is extreme about JB's views?
Weren't there other films he's also not seen, that he's given negative reviews as well?

Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.

Nowhere has he stated categorically that the film, in it's entirety, is "crap."
Who claimed he stated categorically that the film, in it's entirety, is "crap?"

He was quoted above as saying, "All you have to do is overlook the costumes, the casting and the characterizations. And those aren't important, right?"

Certainly not a glowing review.

My question would be how can you judge the film without having seen it? Are the costumes really that far off? They are much mote accurate than the costumes in the X-Men or FF were. How much more accurate could they be? Iron man is great, Thor is damn close, and will I admit I liked the Cap Costume from the movie last summer much better, but the one in the Avengers is actually more accurate isn't it?

The Black Widow and Hulk are right on the money aren't they?

Hawkeye is the only one that you could probably take issue with, but really would you want him to be in the "Purple Arrow" suit? Is that really going to make a huge difference in the quality?

And he's upset because Nick Fury doesn't have his comic book back story intact? So what, Byrne prefers the Hasselhoff version of Fury? What does he want hours of prologue to introduce Marvel continuity?

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#597146 - 05/02/12 03:05 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Joe Lee]
Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
What exactly is extreme about JB's views?
Weren't there other films he's also not seen, that he's given negative reviews as well?


Not to my recollection. He has certainly stated his opinion about certain aspects of some films that he had yet to see which convinced him NOT to see those films.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.

Nowhere has he stated categorically that the film, in it's entirety, is "crap."
Who claimed he stated categorically that the film, in it's entirety, is "crap?"


The statement was given as an absolute was it not? It wasn't even a quote, but yet another exaggeration from the Lawsonator...John Byrne says the new Avengers movie -- that he hasn't seen and that doesn't open in the United States until later this week -- is a disrespectful piece of crap.

These are not JB's words, of course. However, the exaggerated opinion gives that implication.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
He was quoted above as saying, "All you have to do is overlook the costumes, the casting and the characterizations. And those aren't important, right?"

Certainly not a glowing review.


Based on what he has seen in images & trailers. A very valid opinion.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
My question would be how can you judge the film without having seen it?


He's not judging the film. Only certain aspects of the film that he has had access to.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Are the costumes really that far off? They are much mote accurate than the costumes in the X-Men or FF were. How much more accurate could they be? Iron man is great, Thor is damn close, and will I admit I liked the Cap Costume from the movie last summer much better, but the one in the Avengers is actually more accurate isn't it?


I agree. Although, I'm also basing my opinion on images & trailers, seeing as I'm residing in the US & have to wait until at least the 4th (probably going to see it on the 8th, actually).

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
The Black Widow and Hulk are right on the money aren't they?


The images certainly show this. The Hulk, though, in regards to visuals, shouldn't be too difficult to depict. The images & videos I've seen thus far scream out "Awesome!" to me.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
Hawkeye is the only one that you could probably take issue with, but really would you want him to be in the "Purple Arrow" suit? Is that really going to make a huge difference in the quality?


In this, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Clint Barton is a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, and the "Purple Arrow" costume would be out of place, so I agree with you there.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
And he's upset because Nick Fury doesn't have his comic book back story intact? So what, Byrne prefers the Hasselhoff version of Fury? What does he want hours of prologue to introduce Marvel continuity?


JB is stuck in regular Marvel Universe mode, so to speak. In the Marvel Cinematic Universe (as well as the Ultimate Universe...or so I've "heard") Nick Fury is an African American character. Doesn't matter to me. If the stories & depictions are entertaining, then great.
Is Nick Fury, in the regular Marvel Universe, still the same character that I grew up reading? I mean, I'm sure the current regime has brutalized the character in some form or fashion, but continuity-wise I imagine this Nick Fury is the Nick Fury that fought in WWII.

Like I say elsewhen...apples & oranges.

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#597147 - 05/02/12 03:17 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
Jimbo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 2751
Loc: New Zealand/Canada
"All you have to do is overlook the costumes, the casting and the characterizations. And those aren't important, right?"

I can see someone taking issue with the casting or costumes, I liked them myself, but I can appreciate that others might not. But, has the preview material for The Avengers really given away enough about the characterizations of each team member to make an informed opinion on?

I'm asking genuinely, I made a point of not watching any preview material so I have no idea how much of the final product was given away - Although if modern movie trailers are anything to go by I'd imagine most of The Avengers preview media has been mostly shots of the action sequences and very little of the characters doing anything besides jumping, punching or firing off one-liners.
_________________________
Walla Walla Bing Bang.

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#597148 - 05/02/12 03:19 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Jimbo]
Alexander Ness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3851
Loc: Minnesota
"I liked the part where Commissioner Gordon was tied up and ass raped by Joker."

What? That wasn't a part of the movie?

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#597153 - 05/02/12 04:53 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Alexander Ness]
Alexander Ness Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3851
Loc: Minnesota
Remember, according to George Bernard Shaw, One does not have to eat the whole egg to know that it is rotten.

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#597154 - 05/02/12 06:14 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Alexander Ness]
dershocka Offline
Member

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 2200
Loc: USA
John Byrne has created some excellent stories.
His artwork in his hey-day was gourgeous.
His Alph Flight designs looked excellent, on paper.
But, not in a movie, just like any other costume from the comics wouldn't look good on film.

He's turned into an idiot. Its ok to reinterpret Superman, tweak his origin, his costume, and supervillains in 1986 in the comic book, but Doing the Avengers reloaded on film for a much wider audience is some kind of blasphemy?

He would've turned superman's briefs purple, and gave him a mario mustache in 1986 if DC would've told him to for the type of cash this movie makes.

Anyways, my only costume gripe is Cap's costume in the movie. The mask looks silly, and he kinda looks like he's in pajamas. Nice design, poor execution.

Other than that they took something that would've looked silly on film, and made it look badass. Plus, they kept the core concept intact of what made these characters so great, for so long.

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#597155 - 05/02/12 09:17 AM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.]
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
He's not judging the film.


Originally Posted By: John Byrne
All you have to do is overlook the costumes, the casting and the characterizations. And those aren't important, right?

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#597158 - 05/02/12 12:15 PM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: dershocka]
Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
Originally Posted By: dershocka
John Byrne has created some excellent stories.
His artwork in his hey-day was gourgeous.
His Alph Flight designs looked excellent, on paper.
But, not in a movie, just like any other costume from the comics wouldn't look good on film.


Well put & very maturely worded.

Originally Posted By: dershocka
He's turned into an idiot.


Awwww. You were doing so well.

Originally Posted By: dershocka
Its ok to reinterpret Superman, tweak his origin, his costume, and supervillains in 1986 in the comic book, but Doing the Avengers reloaded on film for a much wider audience is some kind of blasphemy?


Well put & very maturely worded...well, except for the use of exaggeration for effect.

Originally Posted By: dershocka
He would've turned superman's briefs purple, and gave him a mario mustache in 1986 if DC would've told him to for the type of cash this movie makes.


Awwww. You were doing so well...well, except for the use of exaggeration for effect.

While JB certainly wasn't paid anywhere near what The Avengers has apparently been making, JB was paid more than any other comic book talent up to that point in time (IIRC), but he didn't accept the job for Superman back then as a puppet, as you seem to imply.

Originally Posted By: dershocka
Anyways, my only costume gripe is Cap's costume in the movie. The mask looks silly, and he kinda looks like he's in pajamas. Nice design, poor execution.

Other than that they took something that would've looked silly on film, and made it look badass. Plus, they kept the core concept intact of what made these characters so great, for so long.


Well put & very maturely worded. Too bad you couldn't maintain this level throughout your post.

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#597163 - 05/02/12 12:39 PM Re: John Byrne hates Avengers movie he hasn't seen [Re: Lawson]
Paul W. Sondersted, Jr. Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 4593
Loc: Sparks, Nevada, United States
Originally Posted By: Lawson
Originally Posted By: Paul W. Sondersted, Jr.
He's not judging the film.


Originally Posted By: John Byrne
All you have to do is overlook the costumes, the casting and the characterizations. And those aren't important, right?


Costumes, casting & characterizations make up the entirety of the film? What happened to acting, directing, setting, special effects, comedy, drama, action...need I go on?

The last 4 words are rhetorical, way the by.

Think about it. JB is certainly in the wrong here because he is overlooking much more. He's dismissing the film, not judging it.

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