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#597520 - 05/10/12 11:37 AM President Obama endorses same-sex marriage
Lawson Offline
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.
WASHINGTON — President Obama's decision to endorse same-sex marriage staked out a stance that carries uncertain political risks but one he said was rooted in the biblical admonition "to treat others the way you would want to be treated."

Obama's endorsement Wednesday, a milestone for the gay rights movement, was the first from a sitting president and a potentially powerful tail wind for a cause still struggling for electoral approval. It comes as the country remains divided over whether same-sex marriages should have the same recognition and legal standing as traditional ones, and six months before an election expected to be so tight it may hinge on small slices of votes in a handful of key states.

He equivocated for more than a year, saying that his position was "evolving." More recently, he came under considerable pressure — from his somewhat deflated base and a powerful network of gay donors — to speak his mind before the November election. His announcement was hastened by a similar declaration from Vice President Joe Biden on Sunday, which prompted calls for Obama to speak out or risk falling behind the curve.

"At a certain point, I've just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married," Obama told ABC News' Robin Roberts in an interview hastily arranged by the White House to quiet the fallout from the Biden remarks.

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#597524 - 05/10/12 12:23 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
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"After much deliberation, I've decided I'm against bigotry ..."

What an embarrassment that we're still debating such stupidities.
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#597537 - 05/10/12 02:25 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Charles Reece]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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I was expecting something like this sometime around December. Everyone on both sides of this non-issue have been making such a stink about it lately, I guess he was forced into making an unambiguous statement. Although I'm sure there was a lot of poll reading to see if it would do any damage to the campaign. Looks right now like it won't, and in fact may provide some cover. There's some story today about Romney having to deny bullying gay classmates in high school.

I saw a statistic recently that surprised me — 25% of gays vote Republican. I was guessing 10% tops.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#597541 - 05/10/12 02:36 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Interesting profile in the Washington Post today.

Mitt Romney, as a high school senior in an expensive private school, led a mob attack of preppies on a younger student Mitt assumed was gay. The victim had bleach-blond hair and wore it over one eye.

Mitt and his buddies dragged the younger guy into a room and, despite his weeping protests, hacked off his hair with scissors, laughing at him.

The Post tracked down, interviewed and named Mitt's old chums, who now are ashamed of themselves and say the attack haunts them. The victim died a few years ago.

Mitt told the Post he doesn't remember any of it.

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#597544 - 05/10/12 02:41 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Lawson Offline
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Unmarried teen mom and reality TV star Bristol Palin blasts Obama on her blog for making a mockery of the traditional family.

In this case, it would’ve been helpful for him to explain to Malia and Sasha that while her friends parents are no doubt lovely people, that’s not a reason to change thousands of years of thinking about marriage. Or that – as great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids’ worldview.

Sometimes dads should lead their family in the right ways of thinking.

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#597546 - 05/10/12 03:05 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Real Hunter, Alll the time. Offline
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Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 104
What a bitch! Fuck that chick!!!
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#597547 - 05/10/12 03:07 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Real Hunter, Alll the time.]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Real Hunter, Alll the time.
Fuck that chick!!!


A number of guys in Alaska have beaten you to it, sorry.

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#597558 - 05/10/12 06:28 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Ted Kilvington Offline
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Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 1080
Loc: Mason, MI, USA
Four years ago I signed up for texts from the Obama campaign to get a notification of who his running mate would be. Five minutes ago I got a text from them saying that if I am proud of the President's stance on marriage, I should make a campaign contribution.
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#597559 - 05/10/12 06:29 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Ted Kilvington]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.
How proud are you, Ted? Are you $100 proud or $1,000 proud?

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#597565 - 05/10/12 09:14 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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The president is just playing the same game as every other politician in the wake of the Citizens United decision. This is exactly why we need campaign finance reform.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#597605 - 05/11/12 06:32 AM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Ted Kilvington Offline
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Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 1080
Loc: Mason, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: Lawson
How proud are you, Ted? Are you $100 proud or $1,000 proud?


I haven't donated money to a political campaign in years. But apparently several others are quite proud, as news reports are coming in stating that President Obama had the single biggest one-day fundraising total ever yesterday.
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Ted J. Kilvington, Jr.

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#597618 - 05/11/12 02:28 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
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"Interesting profile in the Washington Post today."

Could there be a better representation of wealth, privilege and the basis for conservative capitalist views? The incident was evidently so common to Romney that he doesn't even recall it.
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The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#597619 - 05/11/12 02:31 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Ted Kilvington]
shjonescrk Offline
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Registered: 10/31/03
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On the same day, Obama say he was in favour of gay marriage being allowed (mind you, it's a personal view only), a US drone attack kill 17 people in Yemen. Obama loves Gays, kills Arabs.

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#597620 - 05/11/12 02:35 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: shjonescrk]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
There goes the Yemeni vote.

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#597621 - 05/11/12 02:37 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
The U.S. military's use of drones to attack people in foreign lands -- including targeted U.S. citizens and some unfortunately located innocent civilians -- has been reported widely over the last few years.

I'm a little surprised nobody seems to care.

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#597622 - 05/11/12 02:49 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Ted Kilvington Offline
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Registered: 05/10/99
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Loc: Mason, MI, USA
Kissinger figured this out 40 years ago. If Americans don't see it happening to people about whom they give a damn, they won't care what the government does, as long as it doesn't cost too much.
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Ted J. Kilvington, Jr.

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#597624 - 05/11/12 02:59 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Ted Kilvington]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Unfortunately, you're correct.

I mean, if there was at least a national debate about drone warfare played out in Congress, in the presidential campaign, among the screaming heads on TV and even among regular Americans -- with one side arguing civil liberties and human rights and the other side arguing the necessity of warfare against terrorists who are scheming to attack us -- then hey, that would be something. I suspect the people worried about terrorists would win, but at least we would have discussed it openly.

As it stands, folks are apathetic.

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#597625 - 05/11/12 03:00 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
shjonescrk Offline
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Registered: 10/31/03
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Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Lawson
The U.S. military's use of drones to attack people in foreign lands -- including targeted U.S. citizens and some unfortunately located innocent civilians -- has been reported widely over the last few years.

I'm a little surprised nobody seems to care.


Imagine the outrage if Bush Jr. had been doing it. When Obama does it, it's cool, he's showing those Republicans that he is as tough as them. So what if costs some children their lives?

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#597629 - 05/11/12 05:38 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: shjonescrk]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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If BushJr. had been using drone planes instead of soldiers and mercenaries, I'd have been the first to say what a great decision that was. Drones don't steal footlockers full of unaccounted cash, burn Korans, leak intel to Australians or go on random shooting sprees in civilian neighborhoods.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#597676 - 05/12/12 11:31 AM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
shjonescrk Offline
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Registered: 10/31/03
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Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
If BushJr. had been using drone planes instead of soldiers and mercenaries, I'd have been the first to say what a great decision that was. Drones don't steal footlockers full of unaccounted cash, burn Korans, leak intel to Australians or go on random shooting sprees in civilian neighborhoods.


So you prefer that children are killed by drones rather than soldiers on the ground. Doesn't matter how the innocent die whether it be a soldier pulling a trigger or somebody sitting thousands of miles away controlling a drone. Same result.

Apart from killing people, the drones are also pissing off a lot of people in Yemen, Pakistan, Iraq so much so that the hate the good ol' USA. Now, I wonder where that could possibly lead ...

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#597680 - 05/12/12 06:40 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: shjonescrk]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Would I prefer if a drone killed children by accident than if a soldier flipped out and went on a shooting spree? Is that the question?
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#597682 - 05/12/12 07:11 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Yep. Neither was programmed/ordered to do that, so which is preferable?
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#597684 - 05/12/12 07:28 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Charles Reece]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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The drone, obviously. When a drone does it, the machine has not malfunctioned. When a soldier does it, something has gone wrong in the helmet area. The drone doesn't have to be counseled afterwards, apply for jobs in the future, or have family and friends who must bear the moral burden of association.
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"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#597686 - 05/12/12 09:50 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Peter Urkowitz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/00
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Loc: Salem, MA, USA
I have read that some small percentage of drone pilots are having trouble with PTSD, despite having directed attacks from the safety of their control room in Nevada (or wherever). Not quite the same thing as what you were talking about, maybe, but using the drone is not totally without consequences for the people who have to control it.

And the issue of consequences for the people who are attacked by drones, of course, is still wide open. They probably don't care whether they and their families and friends were attacked in person or by remote control. In fact, being attacked by a faceless machine seems a more likely way to turn somebody against the entire country that directed the attacks.

But having said all that, while I don't support all of his methods, I do think that Obama's policies overall have been directed toward extricating us from all of these various conflicts, rather than expanding them. So in the long run I would hope that we would be killing fewer people, both actual foes and innocent bystanders.

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#597696 - 05/13/12 06:51 AM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
shjonescrk Offline
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However, the children or anyone else dies in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq or Yemen because of the actions of the USA, it will have consequences for the USA. Now whether that means the war comes home to America or it's Americans being killed elsewhere in the world it will happen. I think it's called Blowback ...

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#597697 - 05/13/12 01:06 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: shjonescrk]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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I'm not usually a USA-elitist, but I'll start worrying when someone comes up with something more clever than running a plane into a building (both of which were too big to begin with) or blowing up their own underwear.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#597737 - 05/14/12 11:47 AM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
shjonescrk Offline
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Registered: 10/31/03
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You reap what you sow.

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#597749 - 05/14/12 01:26 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: shjonescrk]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7068
We've sown a lot more than we've reaped.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#597757 - 05/14/12 01:47 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
shjonescrk Offline
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So as long as more of those funny foreigners are killed than Yanks it'll be okay.

Anyway, Former Head of CIA Counter Terrorism has some interesting thoughts on the matter.

Eventually, one of the terrorists will commit another atrocity on US soil and then how much more of your freedom are you willing to give up just to be safe?

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#597760 - 05/14/12 02:13 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: shjonescrk]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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That's not what I'm saying at all.

We deserve all the ill will and hatred we get from other around the globe. And more. We've done much more damage to other countries and their economies than we've seen blowback. But the saving grace here is that our enemies are so incredibly stupid. The most effective retaliatory effort we've ever seen — the attacks of 9/11 — merely took advantage of a pressure point where we were equally stupid (airplanes with enough fuel to fly coast-to-coast without stopping slammed into hundred-story buildings).


Originally Posted By: shjonescrk
Eventually, one of the terrorists will commit another atrocity on US soil and then how much more of your freedom are you willing to give up just to be safe?

How much freedom am *I* willing to give up? None. The areas where terrorists are most likely to target, where they could potentially do the most visible damage, mean very little to me. But unfortunately the decision making process doesn't work like that.
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"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#597761 - 05/14/12 05:07 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
The areas where terrorists are most likely to target, where they could potentially do the most visible damage, mean very little to me.


Yeah! Fuck you, New York and Washington D.C., and the millions of people who live there!

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#597764 - 05/14/12 05:29 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108


Quote:
Drones don't steal footlockers full of unaccounted cash, burn Korans, leak intel to Australians or go on random shooting sprees in civilian neighborhoods.


Good point on theft, burning Korans and leaking intel. However, random shooting sprees would be the equivalent of innocents being killed by drones.

I think if Obama does something, regardless if it's good or bad, his supporters will always try to make it look good or find excuses for it.

As for gay marriage, what Obama went on record saying should be more progress. I'm still surprised that everyone against it is still citing the Bible and how this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values.

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#597767 - 05/14/12 06:33 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Joe Lee Offline
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Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
The areas where terrorists are most likely to target, where they could potentially do the most visible damage, mean very little to me.
It's ok. I'd guess you mean even less to them.

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#597770 - 05/14/12 08:24 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Lawson]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lawson
Yeah! Fuck you, New York and Washington D.C., and the millions of people who live there!

Yep. When you choose to live like sardines, don't act surprised when the can gets crushed.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#597771 - 05/14/12 08:26 PM Re: President Obama endorses same-sex marriage [Re: Joe Lee]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
I'd guess you mean even less to them.

I realize this.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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