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#598526 - 06/16/12 06:13 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Joe Lee Offline
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Good lawd. FOUR BUCKS? That's some Elliot Spitzer level whoring going on right there.
So four bucks is expensive for a whore in your neck of the woods? eek

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#598532 - 06/16/12 10:25 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Joe Lee]
Peter Urkowitz Online   happy
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Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3230
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee

I think I get what you're saying, and I would tend to agree, but are you defining a decision to not want to work with or for DC again as unproductive part of anger?


I guess the line I see where it is unproductive is where it starts to hurt his co-creators. I don't think Moore should ever have to work with DC again. But I am saddened when, for instance, he feels he has to cut off ties with Dave Gibbons when Gibbons does want to keep working with DC. That puts Gibbons in an untenable situation.

Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
But choosing to not work for DC again, isn't in and of itself, an unhealthy decision. Some might call it choosing to not risk getting played again. And giving his negative opinion of DC to the press might be considered unprofessional, but some might call it, "straight shooting," or even cautionary tales for others not to get caught in the same traps he did.


Agreed.

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#598538 - 06/17/12 03:30 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Joe Lee]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6915
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
So four bucks is expensive for a whore in your neck of the woods? eek

Times however many copies they sold, yes.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#598539 - 06/17/12 03:35 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6915
Originally Posted By: Peter Urkowitz
But I am saddened when, for instance, he feels he has to cut off ties with Dave Gibbons when Gibbons does want to keep working with DC. That puts Gibbons in an untenable situation.

All Gibbons had to do not to alienate Moore was not bring up Watchmen every time they talked. If that's the only reason Gibbons had to call Moore in the first place, then that's Gibbons' problem.

Do YOU call up your co-workers from twenty-five years ago to talk about the job you did back then?
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#598546 - 06/17/12 10:53 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Joe Lee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Times however many copies they sold, yes.
Good for you. Stay on message, no joking around here, this is serious!

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#598553 - 06/17/12 11:43 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Peter Urkowitz Online   happy
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3230
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Originally Posted By: Peter Urkowitz
But I am saddened when, for instance, he feels he has to cut off ties with Dave Gibbons when Gibbons does want to keep working with DC. That puts Gibbons in an untenable situation.

All Gibbons had to do not to alienate Moore was not bring up Watchmen every time they talked. If that's the only reason Gibbons had to call Moore in the first place, then that's Gibbons' problem.

Do YOU call up your co-workers from twenty-five years ago to talk about the job you did back then?


I do still talk to my high school and college friends about issues having to do with those schools, alumni stuff, who's the new principal, that sort of thing. I've lost track of the folks who worked with me at the deli and the pizza place, but if I was still getting a pension from those places, then I would have more reason to seek them out. And if the deli was the subject of a major motion picture, based partially on my superlative floor-mopping skills, then I definitely think it would come up in conversation, yes. Even though the deli owner was a tyrant who insulted me on a daily basis, it would still be worth it.

In Gibbons' case, Moore told him not to talk about Watchmen, but he also told him to give a thank-you call or note when Gibbons received the Watchmen movie money. So which request was Gibbons supposed to follow? Sort of a "Freeze! Get your hands up!" conundrum there.

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#598559 - 06/17/12 03:42 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Joe Lee]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6915
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
this is serious!

For the future of the comic book industry, yes, I agree.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#598560 - 06/17/12 04:02 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6915
Originally Posted By: Peter Urkowitz
And if the deli was the subject of a major motion picture, based partially on my superlative floor-mopping skills, then I definitely think it would come up in conversation, yes.

The company I worked for in the early 90's was one of the subjects of a book about how consulting firms can badly mismanage companies and have no legal or financial responsibility if the client goes out of business. There are quite a number of points in there I would like to discuss with people who were more in the know about what exactly went down, and thanks to Facebook I probably could do so very easily. However, I think it's best to simply leave it alone.


Originally Posted By: Peter Urkowitz
In Gibbons' case, Moore told him not to talk about Watchmen, but he also told him to give a thank-you call or note when Gibbons received the Watchmen movie money.

I think you may be conflating David Lloyd and V For Vendetta with Dave Gibbons and Watchmen, but even if that's so the situation is very tenable: Thanks for the Watchmen money, now let's move on to other topics. But DC was trying to use Gibbons as a go-between to perhaps get some kind of "blessing" out of Moore for the movie and knock-off garbage like Before Watchmen. If Gibbons weren't an avaricious and two-faced little shitstain he would have never played that role.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#598603 - 06/18/12 05:34 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Peter Urkowitz Online   happy
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3230
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
But DC was trying to use Gibbons as a go-between to perhaps get some kind of "blessing" out of Moore for the movie and knock-off garbage like Before Watchmen. If Gibbons weren't an avaricious and two-faced little shitstain he would have never played that role.


Those vile insults against Gibbons are completely unwarranted. He was caught in a difficult, almost impossible situation, torn between competing interests and personal connections on both sides. Maybe he made some mistakes or poor decisions, but your attacks on him are so disproportionate as to be utter nonsense.

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#598604 - 06/18/12 05:40 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN: SILK SPECTRE #1 [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 6915
Originally Posted By: Peter Urkowitz
[Gibbons] was caught in a difficult, almost impossible situation

No. He. Was. Not.

Moore gave Gibbons all the Watchmen movie money in exchange for his friendship. Which at the barest minimum means not phoning Moore up with the intent of soliciting on behalf of DC. As Moore explicitly laid out for Gibbons, and then Gibbons still went on to do anyway.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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