Okay, but you were saying that it's sad when an artist says having obvious influences isn't necessarily a bad thing.




So the following stories are bad because if you read Superfolks, you can easily see the influence of that in Miracelman and in "Whatever Happened...", you can easily see the influence of Stee Ditko's the Question in Rorshach, the lifted scene from Mad Max, the influence of Asimov in "The Big Chill," the influence of Eisner in "Grey Shirt," the influence of Doc Savage and Superman in "Tom Strong," and so on.

It's sad when one artist praises another whose entire bag of chops were taken from a very short list of other artists.



I doubt Moore disregards those influences, as he does Superfolks on WEHttMoT.

Yet somehow Alex Toth and Doug Wildey managed to have very different styles.

I like Phil Noto's coloring here, but Higgins' color in Watchmen was purposefully different from the other comics of the day. For one thing, it leaned heavily on greens, purples, and oranges rather than the primary colors of usual superhero books. For another thing, rather than use set colors for the costumes, Higgins varied them from panel to panel and scene to scene based on the lighting and other contextual considerations.

The coloring in Watchmen was a shock at the time, and today it still can be hard to take. But it serves an artistic purpose, and I wouldn't say that the color in the new series is better or worse, just different.

And wasn't the ending of Watchmen lifted from an Outer Limits episode, "The Architects of Fear," by allen's logic Mr. Moore didn't do enough to tone down the obvious "lift."

Miss Piggy's rule of thumb when determining how big a bag of chops to buy- Never eat more than you can lift. Yet another dispiriting sign of the corporate controlled cannibal network that surrounds us.

I blame Darwyn Cookie Monster.

What's sad is that your arguments always follow the same pattern.

You dismiss solid arguments as exceptions, while allowing the opposition no exceptions, you often make subtle changes to your arguments, softening your terms over time, to make the arguments more defensible. And when faced with honest differences of opinions, instead of agreeing to disagree, you take pot shots at people. That's sad.

You seem to be making the argument that any obvious influence is not just a failure of the artist but is copying elements with no conscience from other artists. "Lifting" as you seem to like to call it. You draw a pretty solid line, no obvious influences!

I don't draw the line there.

No artist lives in a vacuum, no artist is without influence and Gerald is absolutely right, the obviousness of an influence is subjective.

Debating the line that separates what is merely an artist being influenced versus one being derivative, that is the real discussion. But sadly for you, it's a subjective one. And for most people therein lies the the fun of the discussion.

Allen isn't an artist, so he's just looking for something to bitch about in others who are. It's pretty much what he does when the discussion turns to people who, unlike him, are actually creative.

Mike

What the fuck are you talking about? He made reference to The Outer Limits and that specific episode right in the comic. When asked point blank in an interview if he based WEHttMoT on Superfolks, Moore denied it.

If you're going to try and slag me, at least try to make it make sense.

Examples.



Nope. I change the erroneous bits you make up and insert.



There's no "agreeing to disagree" when you are WRONG.



The occasional "homage" only covers so much. When that copied element (or batch of copied elements) is the artist's very appeal, yes, that's lifting.



Point out my influences. Please.



Good thing I never said that, then.



No, I think Darwyn Cooke's influences are pretty objectively obvious.