Allen, I consider you a friend. I know that my tendency to scold is annoying. I've been trying to restrain that tendency over the last few years, but it's true that recently my restraint has worn thin a few times, and I have scolded your manners, criticized your debating tactics, and sneered at your conspiracy theories. I apologize for all of that, and I will try to rein myself in again.

I could have just let you have your say without commenting, even when it felt to me like you were creating a poisonous atmosphere that was crowding out and shutting down more enjoyable discussion here. I think that in most cases I do manage to just ignore stuff that I don't agree with, but clearly it's been bugging me more than I was even aware of, leading me to lash out. Please take this as an admission of my own hangups rather than a criticism of you.

I do believe that you would be just as much of an opinionated jackass in person as you are online. It's one of the things that we most admire and respect about you. I would hope that I would have the courage in person to let you know when I felt that you had gone over the line. But the truth is that in real life I probably would just not hang out where you hang out, because I avoid conflict. Please take that as an admission of my own weakness rather than as a criticism of you.

Once again, I apologize for being a dick. I apologize for scolding. I can't promise that I won't ever do it again, though. Keep on working my last nerve with your bullshit, and who knows when I'll snap again, and who knows what levels of pretentious condescension I'll come up with then?

Peter: "I do believe that you would be just as much of an opinionated jackass in person as you are online."

That's all I wanted acknowledged.

[quote=Peter Urkowitz]Allen, I consider you a friend. I know that my tendency to scold is annoying. I've been trying to restrain that tendency over the last few years, but it's true that recently my restraint has worn thin a few times, and I have scolded your manners, criticized your debating tactics, and sneered at your conspiracy theories. I apologize for all of that, and I will try to rein myself in again.

I could have just let you have your say without commenting, even when it felt to me like you were creating a poisonous atmosphere that was crowding out and shutting down more enjoyable discussion here. I think that in most cases I do manage to just ignore stuff that I don't agree with, but clearly it's been bugging me more than I was even aware of, leading me to lash out. Please take this as an admission of my own hangups rather than a criticism of you.

I do believe that you would be just as much of an opinionated jackass in person as you are online. It's one of the things that we most admire and respect about you. I would hope that I would have the courage in person to let you know when I felt that you had gone over the line. But the truth is that in real life I probably would just not hang out where you hang out, because I avoid conflict. Please take that as an admission of my own weakness rather than as a criticism of you.

Once again, I apologize for being a dick. I apologize for scolding. I can't promise that I won't ever do it again, though. Keep on working my last nerve with your bullshit, and who knows when I'll snap again, and who knows what levels of pretentious condescension I'll come up with then? [/quote]

Oh no! No, no, no, noooooo!

I'm not letting him off the hook that easily! He wanted the thunder, well her it is!!!

ALLEN!

You're a meany pants!

[quote]What I said was simply a refutal of Joe's oft-repeated claim that the conversations here get heated only because of the Internet providing some kind of buffer. It's an old argument, it's wrong and I'm tired of it. I can guarantee you, him and anyone else that in person I would say the exact same things I type here.

Now, if you feel the need to chastise me further, please fuck off in advance.[/quote]

If anyone else said this to you, you would demand proof of their being such an asshole in person, and refuse to move the conversation any further until they provided such proof.

Nah, I'm pretty sure in person you're the same whiney little chickenshit you are online.

Ad hominem.

We're in the Gutters now, dickhead.

That's never made a difference to you before.

Peter,
You apologized to the guy for being a dick? I appreciate your kind words above, but what I don't understand is how you ended up apologizing to allen. You didn't say anything any worse than he has said to you. Has he ever apologized for being a dick to other people? Not saying he should, but he shouldn't get his panties in a bunch when people treat him in kind. Why should he be given a pass for being a dick, because it's his schtick? I don't buy that. Hell, didn't he jump all over you in the thread about kickstarter, for just asking a question? And you guys are friends? I'm confused.

Peter you were half right when he said "That's a pretty clear threat, and the ambiguous word "tote" indicates an attempt to obscure the threat from moderators. The thread deserved to get flushed." He was attempting to make a threat, but not for the reasons he wants us to think. How do I know the threats were hollow at best? Three reasons...

ONE:
He made it online from the safety of his own home, which goes back to my original statement, "Only on the internet are so many so free to act like such assholes," which as a concept, is a pretty widely accepted one, it's even referenced in the current Psychology Today, in an article about difficult people, (Not the greatest source, it's mostly oversimplified pop psychology, but it made me laugh when I coincidentally ran across the "difficult people" article over the weekend). If he really wanted to kick my ass, he has my contact info. I'm pretty sure he even knows where I live. While he is safe in the knowledge I don't know anything about him or his. This was all for show.

TWO:
He didn't have the guts to make the threat without attempting to, as you said Peter, "obscure the threat from moderators." Hard to take a threat seriously, if the guy making it obviously afraid of sanctions from a message board. A guy like that is afraid of getting banned but I'm supposed to believe is not afraid of getting arrested?

THREE:
He now claims he's not making threats, walking back the language, not even having the guts to stand by his own words. Don't get me wrong, allen can often be a knowledgeable participant in many an interesting or fun discussion, but he's just as often a jerk, using personal attacks, slander and derogatory insults as criticism and even often against other posters. Here we have him attempting to make a threat, or more accurately wanting to appear to be making a threat, how do I know he was attempting to make a threat? Look again at what he said...

>>>"In person, one or the other of us would tote an ass-kicking."

>>>"It might be me toting the ass-kicking. But one or the other us would, should we ever meet face-to-face."

>>>"There's no upset involved. It's something you've earned over a span of many years."

Allen is claiming, that if he and I were ever to meet "in person" or "face-to-face," one of us would "tote" (I assume get) an "ass-kicking, and I "earned" it "over a span of many years." He's trying to convey that he would attempt to kick my ass if we met, that he feels this is inevitable, and he feels I've earned it. He's also making the assumption I would respond in kind. I think that goes to more of what you, (Peter), are saying, that it was just part of his attempt to obscure the threat, again showing fear of the possible ramifications, but that's all a distraction, if allen was really wanting to make a threat, if he had the guts to back up his own words, would he now be claiming he didn't make a threat? True to form allen is now claiming, "What I said was simply a refutal of Joe's oft-repeated claim that the conversations here get heated only because of the Internet providing some kind of buffer."

Typical allen. Remember how a proud statement of how he chased a gay guy into traffic eventually turned into a heroic parable of allen scaring off a drug addled crack whore who had been terrorizing small children? I've said it before many times, he frequently makes inflammatory statements only to later use different terms or phrasing in an attempt to re-write them as more defensible. That in and of itself proves he's too cowardly to stand by his own words, or at the very least, his agenda isn't to get into a fight, it's to get into a flame war, he's just trying to get attention. And idiot that I am, I take the bait all the time, he even says I'm a troll for responding to his posts, that I have the option to not respond, yet he responds to mine all the time. And then you get stuck in that choice of whether or not to let his accusation hang there or not. But you know what, i've discovered it's just not worth it. If you fight back, other posters see you as either the aggressor because he's just being himself, or at the very least you are part of the problem. But mostly, what makes it frustrating is I end up giving the asshole exactly what he wants. Attention.

************

So basically, the guy makes a veiled threat online, from the safety of his own home, obviously mindful of the ramifications, then further walks it back, he's afraid of moderators, he's too cowardly to stand by his own words. How do you take a threat from that man seriously let alone take that man seriously? But it doesn't matter, it wasn't about the threats, it was about some lonely jerk lashing out at people from the safety of his own home, just trying to get attention, Negative attention apparently works just as well. Hell, it probably gets him more attention than being the decent guy he sounded like in his emails to me when a bunch of us here were all working on that single page anthology submission.

Sorry if you feel I was being unfair to you above, but I just don't understand your deference to the guy. I can't understand why people worry about HIS feelings, he's got no problem slandering pros, or making personal attacks against other posters when he gets frustrated.

Just to add that the word 'tote', although archaic, is still used in the South and is pretty much synonymous with 'carry'. The only common word derived from it that I'm aware of is 'tote-bag', a large purse. It won't be easy to carry an ass whipping in that!