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#600154 - 08/15/12 06:25 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. reply from Mike Grell [Re: shjonescrk]
shjonescrk Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 1351
Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
Anyway, never a big fan of Kubert as I thought many of those covers he drew in 70s were pretty dire esp. his Kamandi covers and many of them looked rushed to say the least.

Joe Kubert, rip.

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#600155 - 08/15/12 06:33 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: Stephen R Bissette]
Stephen R Bissette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/98
Posts: 939
Loc: wilmington, VT USA
PS: In 1976, I was a dumb shit kid from northern VT with two years of college already under my belt, who had never held a Windsor-Newton brush in my hand before Joe (and Dick Giordano) put it there, and who had no realistic hopes of ever working my way into anything approximating the industry.

By 1977, I was actively selling my work to multiple publishing venues.

I'd have never gotten there—or anywhere that followed—without Joe, Muriel, and the Kubert School.

I'd follow that statement with a list of my classmates and subsequent Kubert School alumni who went on to work professionally in diverse industries and fields, but I frankly have neither the time nor the inclination a mere hour after returning from the long drive from New Jersey (where I only yesterday attended the services for the man who opened all the doors of the world to me, and last night stood in and outside his home with others who knew and love Joe and his family) to indulge this "conversation" any further.

Nor do I have the stomach to engage with the likes of Mr. Montgomery or Mr. Lawson any further on anything, period. I guess I should thank you for so succinctly reminding me why I have had little to nothing to do with comicon.com boards for years.

Were this conversation happening even a week from today, perhaps—but this is low, guys. REALLY low.

Shame on you.


Edited by Stephen R Bissette (08/15/12 06:36 PM)

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#600156 - 08/15/12 06:35 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: Stephen R Bissette]
Alexander Ness Online   shocked
Member

Registered: 09/17/03
Posts: 3869
Loc: Minnesota
Amen.

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#600157 - 08/15/12 06:40 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: Alexander Ness]
Stephen R Bissette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/98
Posts: 939
Loc: wilmington, VT USA
Wow, shjonescrk, way to redeem the thread.

THREE PAGES of "honorariums" to Joe on this board dedicated to actually demeaning, belittling, and demonizing the man, the artist, and the school is about my limit for one day.

You all have fun stewing in whatever this sad, petty bile is that passes for a discussion board.

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#600158 - 08/15/12 08:03 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. reply from Mike Grell [Re: Alexander Ness]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
Originally Posted By: Mike Grell
Mr. Lawson and Mr. Montgomery spout opinions as fact

Nope. Pointing to facts. Please try to keep up.


Originally Posted By: Mike Grell
Perhaps they feel it would be more fair if it were free.

Nope. In my opinion, it should have long ago gotten over the stigma of not being an accredited institution by either offering courses that would make them an accredited institution (an anatomy class counts as a science, for example), or work with some other community college to come to the same result. That they still only offer a certificate program, after being criticized over that for so long (I first heard that caveat from Steve Lieber in the early 90's), and for that price, shows that they're not interested in being a serious institution of learning. In my opinion.

Oh, and they need to stop lying about their graduate placement rate.


Originally Posted By: Mike Grell
But then you'd be stuck with instructors who worked for free, instead of the best talents in the industry.

I don't want to get *too* deep into this part, but... first off, that's your opinion. And secondly, being a good artist doesn't automatically make one a good teacher. That's where that whole accreditation thing comes into play.


Originally Posted By: Mike Grell
And they seem to object to the idea that Joe might have profited from the business he built

Not really, Ms. Rand. Oh, you're not an acolyte of Ayn Rand? Pardon me. That's what you SEEMED like.


Originally Posted By: Mike Grell
IF Mr. Lawson and Mr. Montgomery intend to discuss this issue further, they should first arm themselves with the facts.

Done. Or do you dispute the records of the federal government?


Originally Posted By: Mike Grell
If they'd like to discuss it with me in person, I suggest they simply arm themselves.

Don't like the message? Shoot the messenger! I expected better from you, Mike. But I guess you are getting old now, so the crotchety old man act must be your thing.

Also, please go to your local college that offers art instruction and ask them to teach you about a thing called FORESHORTENING. You're welcome.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#600159 - 08/15/12 08:08 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: Stephen R Bissette]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
Originally Posted By: Stephen R Bissette
PS: In 1976, I was a dumb shit kid from northern VT with two years of college already under my belt, who had never held a Windsor-Newton brush in my hand before Joe (and Dick Giordano) put it there

Well, even you must admit that your inking kinda sucks. If it weren't for John Totleben, probably even most of us comics nerds here wouldn't know your name.


Originally Posted By: Stephen R Bissette
I'd have never gotten there—or anywhere that followed—without Joe, Muriel, and the Kubert School.

Hey, it's great that you feel that way. I'm sure Joe felt the same way about Will Eisner. However, Joe got paid for his work, even when he was thirteen years old. You had to pay Joe, did you not?


Originally Posted By: Stephen R Bissette
I should thank you for so succinctly reminding me why I have had little to nothing to do with comicon.com boards for years.

That the participants are [mostly] free to speak their minds freely is what I like about Comicon. If you disagree with that, it says more about you than it does us.



But this does remind me that we should look up all the relevant data on CCS.

_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#600160 - 08/15/12 08:23 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Stephen R Bissette Offline
Member

Registered: 11/27/98
Posts: 939
Loc: wilmington, VT USA
Speak your mind freely, Mr. Montgomery. I'll not reward or respond to your utter contempt (now directed at myself) any further. Good luck with whatever it is this is that you're doing.

You should be ashamed of yourself, if you are at all capable of shame.

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#600161 - 08/15/12 08:46 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: Stephen R Bissette]
snoid Offline
Member

Registered: 02/26/99
Posts: 2205
Allen, disgraceful, just outright disgraceful.
_________________________
Words fail the system people only know words as a cover up tool in order to describe things.
-Cory Fuka

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#600162 - 08/15/12 09:30 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: snoid]
ChrisW Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 10034
Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
Shame is not a word associated with Allen, who spies on his father's doctor at car dealerships, or Lawson, who's taking time from his long-promised Steve Ditko expose that the mainstream media couldn't get.

Joe Kubert was a rock.

For decades and countless pages, he and his work were there, for future generations - family, friends, fans - to build on. His quality and professionalism set the standard high.

I'd noticed quite a few projects, old and new, with his name in the last few years and was glad to see age hadn't slowed his pace. Last time I made the trip for comics'n'books, I bought "The Bible" he did with Sheldon Mayer in 1975. Gorgeous stuff.

Now the rock has gone. RIP.
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If This Be... PayPal!!!

"I think ChrisW is the funniest man in entertainment still alive..."
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#600164 - 08/15/12 09:59 PM Re: Joe Kubert R.I.P. [Re: ChrisW]
Peter Urkowitz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3231
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Allen, stop trolling for arguments, you jackass.

Lawson, Allen's questions are not interesting, they are meant to stir up outrage and get everyone mad so he can engage in pointless pissing contests. Don't fall into that trap.

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