That has never been my opinion and I don't think it was the general consensus.

I just think it would have been more appropriate to start a separate thread or maybe even wait a few days out of respect. Like you said these are long standing beefs allen has, he's brought them up time and time again, must they be brought up at every mention of the man including the man's death.

Many try and dismiss allen's remarks as allen being allen. Why does he get a lower standard just for being an asshole frequently?

Not trying to be argumentative here, but didn't you take issue with me for saying as much? I was posting some sort of summary regarding BEFORE WATCHMEN, not casting it in an overly positive light, just not being negative. I think it went something like, one of Kubert's last projects, a "controversial" project where he got to work with a great many of the comic top talents in the book industry, including working directly with one of his sons. And you had an issue with that didn't you?

Not to speak for Chris, maybe I'm misunderstanding you both, but I read his posts, not as objecting to BW being mentioned at all. But to the way it was being mentioned, as well as the focus. The assumption being that it was a black mark, and it seemed BW was being discussed to the exclusion of all Kubert's other work. Maybe I'm wrong.

My feeling is pretty much that to not mention his last published work would be an odd omission. Admitting a negative opinion by the writer, merely by it's omission.

I found the exchange in question.









Correct me if I'm wrong here but you just said, "...And all I've said to Weemie is that Before Watchmen is something that should come up when discussing Kubert's legacy."

I discussed it in the context of his legacy, but you took issue with the fact I didn't treat it as a black mark on his career and then attacked me for reading BEFORE WATCHMEN. So are you arguing that Before Watchmen is something that should come up when discussing Kubert's legacy but only if it's treated as a black mark on the man's career?

I don't see why. It's clear that he doesn't respect these parts of Kubert's legacy. I don't think he should have to feign that respect.



I'm not holding Allen to a lower standard. If he considers Kubert's legacy unethical, he should be provocative. I did the same thing when Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms died.

I don't consider Kubert the ethical equivalent of Thurmond or Helms, but much as everyone should agree with me, not everyone does.



The intent wasn't to take you to task just for mentioning it, no. I honestly assumed that you were reflexively defending this part of Kubert's legacy just to argue with Allen, because I figured, "who would seriously defend Before Watchmen?" And that seemed silly, so I called you out on it.

I was wrong. You, apparently, would seriously defend Before Watchmen. And when I realized that this was the case, that you were being genuine, I thought, "Oh. Well, not much point in this conversation then," and said, "Enjoy those comics, Joe." Because I don't have any interest in a conversation in which I have to pretend that the relative merits of Before Watchmen deserve consideration beyond mockery.



It is my suspicion that Weemie agrees with me, and thinks Before Watchmen is a black mark on Kubert's legacy. If I am wrong, I'm sure he is capable of telling us, "Before Watchmen is fine by me."

If he does though, then I have no idea what his end of the conversation has been all about. His objection, as I mentioned above, was to me saying, "a public discussion of a public figure's life takes the good with the bad."

Unfortunately the "bad" here is

1. A project whose "badness" is a matter of opinion.

2. A business model whose "badness" may also just be a matter of opinion.

Bingo.

Alan Moore's opinion? Who gives a shit, right?



100% placement? What has Matt McGill done? Who was the last notable talent to pass through the Kubert School?

Nor does he respect anyone who does.

Fair enough.

I have yet to see Weemie tell me, "You're wrong about Before Watchmen."

I have, however, seen him get incredibly upset with me for poisoning his memories of Hawkman, keeping him from fondly remembering Our Army at War, and somehow jumping up and down on Kubert's cybergrave.

Either way, if you think I'm wrong about Before Watchmen, then enjoy those comics. If you think Allen's wrong about the Kubert School, feel free to take it up with him. I have no interest in either conversation.

You will note, however, that I'm not insisting that such a conversation not take place; merely excusing myself from it.

You will note, however, that I'm not insisting that such a conversation not take place either, I just would have liked it to have had it's own separate thread. But that ship has sailed, allen got what he wanted, which seems to be a fight with the man by proxy, basically anyone who wanted to remember Mr. Kubert and his work respectfully, without an argument, and those people were just SOL.

Why did you insert yourself into it in the first place?

Mike