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#601236 - 10/08/12 06:53 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Mr. Socko]
Jimbo Offline
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Registered: 07/13/01
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Now that you mention it, I think you are.
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#601238 - 10/08/12 07:00 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Jimbo]
Ted Kilvington Offline
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Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 1080
Loc: Mason, MI, USA
I wondered why that cartoon was showing up again.

And for my two cents...

People who create characters, are creators.

People who create comics, are also creators.

And I didn't get the Phoenix reference.
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#601239 - 10/08/12 08:16 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Ted Kilvington]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
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Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: Ted Kilvington
People who create comics, are also creators.


Don't forget the people who create the staples. Elitist.

Quote:
And I didn't get the Phoenix reference.


It's an Odyssey joke.
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#601240 - 10/08/12 08:45 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Lawson]
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
Originally Posted By: Lawson
Originally Posted By: Strenuous Teddy
http://www.comicon.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=598454#Post598454





Har! laugh

Sayeth Mike just three months ago:

"Allen isn't an artist.

"I put a chain link fence in my back yard, but that doesn't make me a landscaper. I installed a new side panel in my basement shower, but that doesn't make me a contractor. I mow my lawn, but that doesn't make me a gardner.

"If anyone can validly call themselves an artist, then the word can have no real meaning. What? Are standards only for everyone else?"


That's ... a-heh ... that's good stuff.

I think Mike just annihilated Mike.


No, I don't think so. Just because I advocate for some standards, doesn't mean I have to accept stupid ones.

Allen's scribbles don't make him an artist anymore than the movie reviews I've done make me a critic. Likewise, if you want to say the guy who churns out the 597th time Superman fights Terra Man isn't a creator, I'm not sure I'd disagree with that.

But if you're going to say that Peter David, for example, isn't a creator for writing the Incredible Hulk for years and creating umpteen new characters and concepts while doing so, solely because those creations didn't go on to become as popular as the Vision, I'm still going to say that's ridiculous.

If you say that Peter David, under those circumstances, isn't a creator but some guy who craps out one issue of a poorly written, terribly drawn indy comic full of boring and lame, yet original, work IS a creator, then I'm going to tell you you're just being a dick.

Mike

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#601241 - 10/08/12 08:48 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Lawson]
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
Originally Posted By: Lawson
I'm a journalist.


Says who? I've never read your work. I've never heard anyone discuss it. It doesn't appear to have had any real impact on the world. By those standards, which you're using to say writers and artists aren't creators, you're not a journalist. You're just some guy who writes in a newspaper.

Mike

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#601242 - 10/08/12 09:03 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: MBunge]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
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Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: MBunge
If you say that Peter David, under those circumstances, isn't a creator but some guy who craps out one issue of a poorly written, terribly drawn indy comic full of boring and lame, yet original, work IS a creator, then I'm going to tell you you're just being a dick.


I'm sorry the cool kids made fun of your superhero comics that one time, Mike. But it's time to let the anger go.
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"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
- Ed Gauthier, DCP

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#601243 - 10/08/12 09:16 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: MBunge]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7068
Originally Posted By: MBunge
Allen's scribbles don't make him an artist

Hey, that reminds me. You never did answer the question: Vincent Van Gogh, artist or no?
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#601250 - 10/09/12 05:59 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
I usually refer to comic writers and artists as comic writers and artists or just writers and artists.

If someone specifically asked me who were my favorite comic creators I would probably list Mike Allred because of Madman, Bob Burden for Flaming Carrot, The Hernandez Bros for Love and Rockets, Steve Ditko/Stan Lee for Spider-man and Doctor Strange.
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#601252 - 10/09/12 07:28 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Gerald]
Ted Kilvington Offline
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Registered: 05/10/99
Posts: 1080
Loc: Mason, MI, USA
The term "creators" also is used to refer to both "writers and artists" as one category.
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Ted J. Kilvington, Jr.

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"I still have that comic, only now it's in liquid form!"

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#601254 - 10/10/12 06:52 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Ted Kilvington]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7068
Rorschach #2... continuing the catchphrase-laden takedown of some rough-complected pimp.

Kovacs apparently has a girlfriend, a waitress at (WHERE ELSE??) the Gunga Diner. The (black) cook says something about forcing his knocked-up girlfriend to go on welfare and Kovacs interjects with an Ayn Rand-ism, albeit inadvertently. I wonder how they'll dispose of the waitress.

I hadn't noticed previously that this takes place in 1977, two years after the transformative Blaire Roche kidnapping incident. Interesting that Rorschach intervenes in a situation of one of the pimp's strongarms roughing up a hooker, and has nothing to say to or about the hooker.

I thought the typewriter style captions in #1 were just Rorschach's internal dialogue, but apparently it's what he's already begun putting in his journal. There are strikethrough typos this time and they even show the typewriter.

Internal ad for a Hellblazer collection written by Azzarello, with a gushing blurb from... Alan Moore. I'm guessing that wasn't recent.

Alt cover by Mark Simpson (under his moronic "Jock" pseudonym) dashing off yet another of his cheap Sienkiewicz-esque regurgitations.
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"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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