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#601961 - 03/20/13 02:34 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
Ozymandias #6...

I had honestly forgotten there was still another issue of this to go. That's probably because there has been almost no new content in this entire series, just the same events we already knew from different angles. This issue is probably the most egregious offender in that regard. Wein even quotes a page from Straczynski's Moloch prequel, to give you an idea of how empty this thing is. More setup of the squid attack, and we get to see Blake's visit to the island. As with Doctor Manhattan creating life on another planet, like this was actually necessary for us to see. It finally ends with Veidt kicking in the door of Blake's apartment.

One interesting thing was how Wein disposes of the new character of Veidt's assistant. As Azzarello did with Kovacs' girlfriend in the final issue of his prequel, and Straczynski did with Twilight Lady in the final issue of Nite Owl, Veidt's faithful asistant Marla has to go bye-bye here, but in this case it's permanent. Marla had conveniently "stumbled in front of an oncoming city bus," but of course that was orchestrated by Veidt because she "knew too much." It's painfully obvious in all of these girl disposals the point was simply to reset everything back to zero to line up with the original.

Pathetically lame art this time by Jae Lee. Skewed faces and hands, bad anatomy, bad proportions, overuse of silhouettes, minimal backgrounds and even some repeated panels.

Alt cover by Ryan Sook. I thought he was pretty good after he stopped aping Mike Mignola and started trying to be JH Williams, but he's never done anything original. Sad, but not a huge loss.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#601962 - 03/20/13 02:34 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
Okay, so for real this time, I think all there is left is the last issue of Comedian.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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#601978 - 04/01/13 04:12 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
BEFORE WATCHMEN: COMEDIAN
06/2012: Comedian #1 of 6 -- 115,713
07/2012: Comedian #2 of 6 -- 70,762 (-38.9%)
08/2012: --
09/2012: Comedian #3 of 6 -- 55,114 (-22.1%)
10/2012: --
11/2012: --
12/2012: Comedian #4 of 6 -- 50,073 (- 9.2%)
01/2013: --
02/2013: Comedian #5 of 6 -- 44,393 (-11.3%)

BEFORE WATCHMEN: DOCTOR MANHATTAN
08/2012: Dr. Manhattan #1 of 4 -- 86,197
09/2012: --
10/2012: Dr. Manhattan #2 of 4 -- 57,226 (-33.6%)
11/2012: --
12/2012: Dr. Manhattan #3 of 4 -- 48,909 (-14.5%)
01/2013: --
02/2013: Dr. Manhattan #4 of 4 -- 43,273 (-11.5%)



A few observations:

1. The jagoffs producing BEFORE WATCHMEN couldn't come close to making their deadlines, even on mini-series based on other men's work.

2. The audience for BEFORE WATCHMEN seems to have been about 43,000 idiots. So a lot of people - I'm happy to say - likely lost money on this project. Every comics shop I've been in for the last six months has been sitting on unsold stacks of BEFORE WATCHMEN. Must have cost them dearly. Let that be a lesson to folks.

3. I'm gonna predict that, as trade collections, BEFORE WATCHMEN won't sell nearly as well as WATCHMEN does. So these fairly pitiful numbers? These are the majority of sales the project ever will see.

Was a comic desired by 43,000 people worth it?

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#601979 - 04/01/13 05:32 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Lawson]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
The hardcover reprints (two series per book) solicited last month. I can't help but wonder who in the fuck those are supposed to be aimed at. All the assholes who thought BW was a good idea already consumed their fill.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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#601980 - 04/02/13 09:38 AM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
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Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
There were something like 38 issues to Before Watchmen. At $3.99 a pop, that comes to more than $150 to answer the question, "So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get?"

Coulda' saved you some time and money, guys. The answer is, and always was, "pretty f'ing bad."
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#601981 - 04/02/13 09:41 AM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Yep.

A quarter-century after it first was published, WATCHMEN still sells decent numbers as a trade paperback. It's usually up there in the Top 100 for bookstores and the direct market. It stands the test of time.

BEFORE WATCHMEN, on the other hand, is likely to sink like a stone. I'll go ahead and bet that five years from now, you won't be able to walk into most bookstores or comics shops and find BEFORE WATCHMEN trades. They might be crammed into the $2-to-$5 trade boxes on the floor at comic conventions, along with all of those 9/11 tribute books.

Unfortunately, Darwyn Cooke, Amanda Conner, Len Wein, J. Michael Strawhewihicki, Adam Hughes, the Kuberts and the others who said "Fuck Alan Moore" to participate in this project got paid, regardless, and probably paid well.

On the bright side, everyone else involved with it likely took a bath, from DC Comics, which handed out the paychecks and commissioned dozens of variant covers to spread the guilt around, to retailers who stacked the copies high on their shelves, sure that this would be a best-seller.

It did my heart good to see the monthly sales figures for the BW books start at over 100,000 -- which meant a ton of them were ordered and published -- and end down around 40,000 pretty much across the line. Ouch!

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#601990 - 04/04/13 08:49 AM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Lawson]
arthur pendragon Offline
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Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1089
Maybe they should've titled the work, Grease 2 or The Sting II?! Before Watchmen?! After Ca$h was what they should've called it! I can see the capsule review on the trade now! "Less really isn't Moore!" smile

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#601991 - 04/04/13 12:31 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: arthur pendragon]
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
This fellow at the Cleveland Pain Dealer says BEFORE WATCHMEN was such a financial and critical success for DC Comics that a sequel, AFTER WATCHMEN, is a lead-pipe cinch.


The series was a gamble that paid off big time. DC made a fortune, which is fortunate since I suspect they paid a fortune to get top-notch writers and artists to handle the series. But more importantly, the stories were good.


He's entitled to his opinion on whether the stories were "good." But since he's a journalist, I'd be curious to see the numbers that verify the "fortune" DC made. Yes, there was a lot of hype and a lot of controversy. Yet the sales data I look at show a paying audience of between 40,000 and 50,000 for most of the BEFORE WATCHMEN mini-series. That's not an extraordinary number, even by today's low standards.

This passage also irked me:


The most revealing chapters belonged to Ozymandias, the perfect man. The true extent of his plans to save the Earth, just how far he was willing to go, was laid bare.


Maybe it's his use of the word "true." Alan Moore wrote the original story. This was merely a knockoff, a follow-up, an attempt by other, lesser writers to fill in gaps that they perceived. Only one man can tell me anything "true" about the motivations of any of the WATCHMEN characters, and that's Alan Moore.

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#601993 - 04/04/13 08:39 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Lawson]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
I'm only two paragraphs in, and he's already made an error. The final issue of Ozymandias is not the last issue. The final issue of the Comedian is scheduled for release on April 24th.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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#601994 - 04/05/13 05:41 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Allen Montgomery]
HouseOfMisterE Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 268
Loc: Huntsville, AL
The official DC checklist has Ozymandias last and Comedian next-to-last (with February 2013 release dates). That guy probably Googled it.

http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2012/06/05/before-watchmen

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