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#601035 - 09/26/12 07:13 PM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Peter Urkowitz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3231
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
I don't remember that, but lemme check. Be right back.

Well, in #131, at the end of a much longer Note From the President, there is this note:
Quote:

The Oscar character wishes to apologize for the incorrect usage of the word 'irregardless' in issue 128 and hastens to point out that the composition of the text pieces in Jaka's Story consists in the perfect use of an imperfect comic book writer (who shall remain nameless).


So maybe that's what we're talking about? I guess that could be construed as indignant, but it sounds more self-deprecating to me.

I hadn't re-read Jaka's Story in quite a while. Based on the quick skim I just did, it holds up pretty well.


Edited by Peter Urkowitz (09/26/12 07:14 PM)

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#601039 - 09/26/12 11:42 PM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: Peter Urkowitz]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7087
I don't think that was it. I'll have to look it up.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
ó Bob Kane

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#601066 - 09/29/12 01:27 AM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: Allen Montgomery]
madget Offline
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 4870
I still think people who quit pre-"Guys" are missing out, although I understand it. Misogynistically-flavored as it may be, to me "Guys" is the point where Cerebus really regained cohesion and steam. I did lose patience somewhere in the latter half of the Latter Days, and never entirely finished the full run to the very end, but I really believe a lot of Sim's most accomplished work is in the post-Mothers & Daughters arc of Cerebus. As relates to the article cited, I'd probably vote for Form & Void myself over Going Home, but not because Hemingway is superior to Fitzgerald; simply because Sim's caricaturization of Hemingway is funnier and more incisive, and the art more unique and accomplished. The story darker, but less oblique.

If I had to choose favorites based on the "phone books," I'd say High Society, Guys, Rick's Story, Going Home, Form & Void, and maybe portions of Latter Days are the best. Church & State Part I, I'm fond of, and Jaka's Story is decent, if a little overrated. Melmoth isn't too bad either, and the first volume, Cerebus, a silly guilty pleasure. Most of Mothers & Daughters (Flight, Women, Reads) is pretty tedious and haphazard, if interesting (Minds is the best volume) -- but it all picks up again with Guys, shifting back to an earthier, more cohesive tone and narrative, and some truly brilliant lettering and nuanced characterization. Rick's Story trickles Sim's obsession with religion back into the mix, and has some truly hilarious and utterly unique bits in it. Save when he gets too text-heavy, the quality really doesn't lack from there forward. A lot of smart stuff going on. Hell, for Gerhard's backgrounds alone it's worthwhile.

K

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#601067 - 09/29/12 01:35 AM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: madget]
madget Offline
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 4870
I.e.:

Cerebus - 3.5 stars (the amateurish beginnings, but oddly engrossing if you stick with it a bit)

High Society - 5 stars (most accessible volume in terms of pure political satire)

Church & State I - 4 stars

Church & State II - 3 stars

Jaka's Story - 4 stars

Melmoth - 4 stars, but sort of a weird, un-Cerebusy tangent

Flight - 2.5 stars

Women - 2.5 stars

Reads - 3 stars (tedious, but as experimentation with form it's interesting; plus it contains the infamous issue #186)

Minds - 3.5 stars (swordfights in space + Gerhard backgrounds + confrontation between Cerebus and Dave Sim = something very unique)

Guys - 5 stars (I seem to be the rare fan that loved Guys)

Rick's Story - 4.5 stars (Sim's incendiary nuttiness breaks through the seams more here, but it's still fascinating and brilliant and a truly engrossing re-take on an old secondary character)

Going Home - 4 stars

Form & Void - 4.5 stars

Latter Days - varies - (lost steam somewhere late in this run, but the early issues are fucking great)

Last Day - haven't read yet

K

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#601069 - 09/29/12 02:07 AM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: madget]
Peter Urkowitz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3231
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Wow, madget, that's an amazing summary/review there. Well done!

I realized while going back over my Jaka's Story single issues that i hadn't read them in a while, whereas the later issues that I only have in phonebook form, those get pulled of the shelf and reread more often. It's just more of a chore to go hunting through longboxes and opening bags to read the single issues.

One big advantage to the single issues, I think, is that they do NOT have Sim's annotations. While I enjoy those kind of completist extras as much as anyone, Sim tends to go overboard. His obnoxious, paranoid self-absorption is on full display in the annotations. Especially in The Last Day, Sim spends a lot of time telling the story of how his parents hated him and he hated them back, and how the comics-reading public hates him and he hates them back. And then he describes little storytelling techniques that he was trying to pull off in certain panels, which would have been completely opaque and unnoticed otherwise. And the experience of reading would have been better without knowing that Sim tried and failed to convey those details. I could have filled in the context and meaning in my own mind just fine, in a way that I would not have found quite as offensive as the actual context and meaning that Sim supplies in his annotations.

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#601075 - 09/29/12 02:59 AM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Time Warp 1993 Online   content
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Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 3577
TCJ was a good magazine untill they decided mainstream artists don't matter. At least Tomorrows still does Mainstream artists.

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#601077 - 09/29/12 04:11 AM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: Time Warp 1993]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7087
TCJ also decided that only some alt cartoonists mattered. I never heard shit in the news section of TCJ about the meltdown of Vortex. First I heard was on some ARPAnet message board Steven Grant saying that Bill Marks was trying to find Matt Howarth "a new publisher that wasn't Fantagraphics."
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
ó Bob Kane

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#601166 - 10/04/12 12:41 AM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
I hope people are still reading the comments, it keeps getting funnier. What a loon.

Quote:
Iím not, as an example, willing to be the concentration camp commandant who proves FBIís bona fides as a good Absolutist First Amendment publishing house. Iím not marching through Skokie, Illinois to advance the cause of neo-Nazis and the ACLU and First Amendment Absolutists everywhere. Iím a graphic novelist with well-considered opinions on a number of subjects which dissent from the popular consensus. Who, for his troubles, has been associated with the image of a concentration camp commandant.


manohman.
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

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#601185 - 10/04/12 06:05 PM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: Charles Reece]
shjonescrk Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 1351
Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
Just read Sim's essay "Tangents" - its completely batshit insane, laughable in the extreme. Sim is well-read but is an uneducated fool.

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#601186 - 10/05/12 01:15 AM Re: Dave Sim and Fantagraphics Lovefest [Re: shjonescrk]
Peter Urkowitz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/28/00
Posts: 3231
Loc: Salem, MA, USA
Looks like they have ended the "negotiation" and locked down the thread now. About time. Dave Sim at his most trollish.

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