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#601379 - 11/05/12 11:49 AM 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire'
Lawson Offline
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“We need more cartoonists to truly retire when they retire and not run repeats. Repeats are the absolute soul-crushing killers of the comics page."

-- Stephan Pastis, cartoonist on "Pearls Before Swine"

Yep! I agree.

I loved "Peanuts" and "For Better Or For Worse" when they were running the first time. But when the cartoonists died or retired, it was time to clear their space for someone new rather than committing to an eternity of reruns.

Likewise, it's time to say goodbye to all those moldy-oldies like "Blondie," "Hagar the Horrible," "Beetle Bailey," "Hi and Lois," "Wizard of Id," "B.C.," "Shoe," "Garfield," etc., etc., unfunny strips that have run for decades despite the death, retirement and/or disappearance of their creators.

If the guy doing the strip today is the grandson of the original cartoonist, and he's not even really doing the strip, he's playing another round of golf at his Boca Raton retirement community while his underpaid assistants back at the studio crap out the strip and approve licensing rights for more coffee mugs and Hallmark cards, then it's time to drop the axe, thanks.

Comic strips have become as stale and moribund as comic books would be if they continued to milk the same dozen or so tired franchises year after year after year.

...

Hey, wait.

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#601382 - 11/05/12 03:04 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Lawson]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
Have you written your local paper about getting rid of those old strips?

I remember when I was younger I'd buy the paper just for the comics section. Our Sunday paper has some good new strips but they still waste too much space with Blondie, Peanuts, etc.
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#601389 - 11/05/12 04:19 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Newspapers occasionally conduct polls to see what strips readers want to see, and the older strips typically come out on top. Pastis isn't even smart enough to secure the dot-com or dot-net domain name for his strip, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for his plight.
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#601390 - 11/05/12 04:20 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Double post
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#601395 - 11/06/12 11:28 AM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Lawson]
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
Originally Posted By: Lawson
“We need more cartoonists to truly retire when they retire and not run repeats. Repeats are the absolute soul-crushing killers of the comics page."

-- Stephan Pastis, cartoonist on "Pearls Before Swine"


Translation: I'd be a bigger deal if I wasn't overshadowed by 30 year old Peanuts strips and whatever the hell that "For Better or Worse" chick is doing!

Mike

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#601399 - 11/06/12 02:46 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: MBunge]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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And seriously? Even with the circulation numbers of newspapers going south so quickly, there are *still* wannabes whining about Peanuts reruns and Dik Browne's grandson taking all their opportunities? It's like these people never heard of the Internet or something.
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#601403 - 11/06/12 04:15 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: MBunge]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
Originally Posted By: MBunge
Originally Posted By: Lawson
“We need more cartoonists to truly retire when they retire and not run repeats. Repeats are the absolute soul-crushing killers of the comics page."

-- Stephan Pastis, cartoonist on "Pearls Before Swine"


Translation: I'd be a bigger deal if I wasn't overshadowed by 30 year old Peanuts strips and whatever the hell that "For Better or Worse" chick is doing!

Mike


Totally disagree. If these old strips were retired and the comics page was full of new ones I think there would be more interest in them.
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#601404 - 11/06/12 07:33 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
All paper periodicals are dying. Comic strips aren't going to change that.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#601407 - 11/06/12 11:12 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
I never said that comic strips would revive the newspaper business.

It's like DC focusing on putting out the same old shit. Superman #1 this time he has a collar! Before Watchmen: Bubastis!
You could criticize that approach or you could just say, "new characters/comics aren't going to change the dying comic book business."

And since newspapers are still putting out a comics section it couldn't hurt to try something new.
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#601409 - 11/07/12 12:22 AM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Posts: 7089
New characters/comics *aren't* going to save a distribution model that segregates the comics medium from other forms of publishing, and allows the comics medium to be defined by only mild variations of one genre.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
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#601410 - 11/07/12 02:04 AM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
So why bother to criticize the books that Marvel and DC come out with?

Anyways, I think the only comic strips I was looking forward to back in early 2000s was Monty. Maybe a couple others but I can't recall.

Breathed coming back to comics page was kind of exciting but the result not so much. His artwork was still good but I didn't like the wonky continuity and recycling of some jokes.

Brewster Rockitt is good.

I wish Jim Davis would let the Garfield minus Garfield take over the strip.


Edited by Gerald (11/07/12 02:09 AM)
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#601411 - 11/07/12 02:12 AM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
Originally Posted By: Gerald
So why bother to criticize the books that Marvel and DC come out with?

Umm, because they're usually bad? Because they're often poor ambassadors to representing comics as a legitimate storytelling medium? Because so many creative people have been chewed up and spit out by their business models?

Too many options.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#601412 - 11/07/12 02:16 AM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
When I complain about it I just want them to put out something new and good to read.
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#601418 - 11/07/12 11:40 AM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
Originally Posted By: Gerald
Originally Posted By: MBunge
Originally Posted By: Lawson
“We need more cartoonists to truly retire when they retire and not run repeats. Repeats are the absolute soul-crushing killers of the comics page."

-- Stephan Pastis, cartoonist on "Pearls Before Swine"


Translation: I'd be a bigger deal if I wasn't overshadowed by 30 year old Peanuts strips and whatever the hell that "For Better or Worse" chick is doing!

Mike


Totally disagree. If these old strips were retired and the comics page was full of new ones I think there would be more interest in them.


Imagine a TV producer bitching about all the reruns that dominate cable TV. "Everybody Loves Raymond is the soul-crushing killer of television."

Mike

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#601420 - 11/07/12 05:09 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: MBunge]
Allen Montgomery Offline
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7089
Not an equivalent analogy, as there are hundreds of TV channels to fill and only a very limited amount of space in the newspaper to fill. Some cartoonists apparently still see that receding real estate as some kind of gold standard of recognition, when they should be more concerned with finding new outlets for their work. But when neither pearlsbeforeswine.com nor pearlsbeforeswine.net have anything to do with Stephan Pastis, it's obvious at least some of them are too misty-eyed from crying to be able to see the future.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#601422 - 11/07/12 05:41 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: MBunge]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
Originally Posted By: MBunge


Imagine a TV producer bitching about all the reruns that dominate cable TV. "Everybody Loves Raymond is the soul-crushing killer of television."

Mike


It would be more comparable if NBC decided to continue showing Seinfeld reruns for their Thursday night 9:00 PM slot, even after Jerry Seinfeld had ended the show.
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#601423 - 11/07/12 08:28 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
Jimbo Offline
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Registered: 07/13/01
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#601425 - 11/08/12 11:12 AM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: Gerald]
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
Originally Posted By: Gerald
Originally Posted By: MBunge


Imagine a TV producer bitching about all the reruns that dominate cable TV. "Everybody Loves Raymond is the soul-crushing killer of television."

Mike


It would be more comparable if NBC decided to continue showing Seinfeld reruns for their Thursday night 9:00 PM slot, even after Jerry Seinfeld had ended the show.


I'm pretty sure NBC would do that if they thought they could get away with it. My point is that cartoonists should argue that replacing old stuff with new stuff will lead to increased readership, not that a newspaper comic page should exist for the benefit of the cartoonist.

Mike

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#601426 - 11/08/12 05:10 PM Re: 'We need more cartoonists to truly retire' [Re: MBunge]
Gerald Offline
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Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 1108
Originally Posted By: MBunge
Originally Posted By: Gerald
Originally Posted By: MBunge


Imagine a TV producer bitching about all the reruns that dominate cable TV. "Everybody Loves Raymond is the soul-crushing killer of television."

Mike


It would be more comparable if NBC decided to continue showing Seinfeld reruns for their Thursday night 9:00 PM slot, even after Jerry Seinfeld had ended the show.


I'm pretty sure NBC would do that if they thought they could get away with it. My point is that cartoonists should argue that replacing old stuff with new stuff will lead to increased readership, not that a newspaper comic page should exist for the benefit of the cartoonist.

Mike


I didn't come to the same conclusion you did after reading the quote.

Anyway, yeah, I don't mind some long running strips to be continued like Doonesbury. It's not my favorite but to my knowledge it's still done by the same artist and it's atleast about current events. Not "I hate Spiders/Mondays" forever, and needing a ghost artist for that.

Allen makes a good point about newspapers and the internet. But like I said, if your competition is the internet (and this is only in regards to the comics section of a paper) you'd think you'd step it up a bit considering your still publishing a comics page.

Maybe it's like Marvel and DC. They have an old fanbase of diehards that want to read the further adventures of Superman/Garfield forever and ever, and not try anything new. Not enough younger readers to appeal to.

Then again, even way before the internet there was problems with the comics page that people like Breathed and Watterson were vocal about, whether it be the size of the strips or strips created by a corporation and not an artist (although Robotman turned out to be really good).



Edited by Gerald (11/08/12 05:12 PM)
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