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#599027 - 06/28/12 01:21 PM So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get?
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
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Bad enough for J. Michael Straczynski to turn Hollis Mason into Adam West and Dan Dreiberg into Tim Drake.

Mike

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#599028 - 06/28/12 02:53 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: MBunge]
Joe Lee Offline
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
I really enjoyed the art, but have to admit I really would have liked it a lot better if it had been a new hero or even a new classic Charlton era Blue Beetle retelling or revamp. But even then, there was something missing.

The above average-ness of it all is starting to wear thin. There is a bland competence to the series that's seems to be getting too consistent. I'm not sure if that makes sense but that's how this series is wearing on me, it started out surprisingly not bad, then maintained it's slightly-better-than-the-average-DC-book-ness to the point it's just kind of bland, but not too bland, maybe it's just the problem with so many number one issues in a row not having too much to say yet. Or creators not wanting to be the guy who screws up the thing. But it seems like they don't bother to give you anything to want to stick around for. The series is becoming totally dependent on the original Watchmen for engaging the readers curiosity. If it doesn't start doing it on it's own it'll be worse than a grand failure, it'll be a mediocre marginal book, that didn't so much fail, but never quite succeeded to do anything beyond not sucking. It needs some guts, it needs to stand on it's own in any way. I wanted a sort of Watchmen version of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. This is more like packing peanuts and bubble rap.

So much great talent really could and should be put to a better purpose like a new character, or concept, it would have been so much better. It might have freed up some creativity enough to break through the bland competence of it all.

I'll be curious to see how much the sales drop after they start the second issues.


Edited by Joe Lee (06/28/12 03:16 PM)

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#599035 - 06/29/12 11:37 AM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: MBunge]
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
To me, BEFORE WATCHMEN is doing two things.

1. Putting the weaknesses of modern comic storytelling on display. It's a little unfair because WATCHMEN is perhaps the best ever use of relatively traditional comic storytelling techniques, but when you look at all Moore and Gibbons accomplished in their first issue vs. what the BW creators have done, it's pretty stark how much less complex and dense the new books are.

2. Graphically illustrating how the role of editor has changed in the business. From two of the first four books specifically contradicting things from the original work, to a ludicrous amount of painfuly "on the nose" foreshadowing, to the text piece at the back of the book where the editor reveals he was hired AFTER the writer and artist were selected for the book, a lot of the flaws of this project seem to flow from editors acting as talent facilitators instead of, you know, edtiors.

Mike

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#599036 - 06/29/12 12:06 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: MBunge]
Joe Lee Offline
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
I'm just really surprised that no one is writing anything controversial or exciting, (other than contradicting facts from the original work). No one is taking any risks, or doing anything to grab the audience. Just like the Star Wars prequels. They are going from point a to point b, no one is doing anything unexpected, no one is telling us anything we didn't know. Other than the mistakes anyway.

The original Watchmen starts off in the middle of action.A crime scene and a murder flashback. I've seen sad people moping for three issues straight now.

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#599038 - 06/29/12 12:31 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Joe Lee]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
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You really find that surprising, Joe? Not taking risks is the point behind the series.
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#599039 - 06/29/12 12:38 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Charles Reece]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
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Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
Yeah, I touched a stove yesterday. Turns out? Hot!
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#599040 - 06/29/12 12:38 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Charles Reece]
Joe Lee Offline
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 12277
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but I hoped with at least some of the talented people involved, someone might try to do something more.

They should have just called it Watchmen Lite


Edited by Joe Lee (06/29/12 12:40 PM)

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#599041 - 06/29/12 12:58 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Joe Lee]
jackdaw Offline
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Registered: 07/26/05
Posts: 514
Not surprised at all that its not very good.

But... for first time for a long time must admit I wish the old DC boards were still around. It would have been fun to see how many of the anti-Alan Moore brigade consider it far better than the original.

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#599043 - 06/29/12 02:19 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: Charles Reece]
MBunge Offline
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Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
Originally Posted By: Charles Reece
Not taking risks is the point behind the series.


But you'd think fidelity to the source material would be somewhat important. Even if you want to excuse the JFK stuff as something that was only implied in the original, the NITE OWL book is presenting a substantially different origin for Dan Dreiberg and a completely different relationship between Dan and Hollis Mason.

Mike

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#599045 - 06/29/12 02:35 PM Re: So, how bad can BEFORE WATCHMEN get? [Re: MBunge]
Charles Reece Offline
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Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Well, here is a case where fidelity is betrayal, so I'm surprised that they were creative enough to be unfaithful. This all sounds like an Elsewhere-Watchmen that's maybe only one planet removed, or What If Alan Moore Hadn't Written Watchmen, but Editors Had Come Up With Similar Character Ideas?
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