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#601870 - 02/05/13 09:35 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: Allen Montgomery]
billybates Offline
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Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 389
Loc: ON, CAN
Hey, you contrarian dips...You did your job! You got me to sift through my Jack Kirby Collectors to find what I've known to be fact the whole time (but that you couldn't find on google, which means I must be wrong).

From The Jack Kirby Collector 39, pg 57:

Paul Levitz (on the 2002 Kirby Tribute Panel): "And in the course of talking to him about it (The Super Powers toy line), we realized that we could get just enough new creative work out of that that we could stare ourselves in the mirror and justify to the corporation that that was an acceptable excuse to kind of rewrite history and turn the clock back and say, "Well, Jack, in trade for doing this stuff, which we'll pay you to do, we'll also give you the kind of royalty from these characters that have not yet been exploited, as if you were creating them today." And part of it was certainly that it was a good message to our competition...And it continues to earn the estate money. If you see the Demon show up on a Saturday morning cartoon, that picks up a few grand somewhere in the system, I guess - A hundred - it depends on how many characters appear in it, and adds into the royalty system. That feels good when you see that check go out."

It sure does feel good, Paul. It sure does.

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#601871 - 02/05/13 09:46 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: billybates]
billybates Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 389
Loc: ON, CAN
Actually...I'll just add some keywords here so other Google-obsessed information sleuths won't suffer from the same problems you two had:

Jack Kirby DC Comics Royalties

Jack Kirby DC creative participation contract

Jack Kirby DC Comics 1980s deal

Jack Kirby Super Powers royalty

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#601872 - 02/06/13 09:29 AM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: billybates]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: billybates
Oh, this is all in my head (which is why I said seemingly by design.)


Originally Posted By: Lawson
Are you sure? I'd like to think you're correct, but what evidence do you have?

... I certainly could be wrong.


Originally Posted By: billybates
Hey, you contrarian dips...You did your job! You got me to sift through my Jack Kirby Collectors to find what I've known to be fact the whole time (but that you couldn't find on google, which means I must be wrong).


Har! laugh

I like the contrarian dips crack, and plead guilty to that, but gimme a break, Billy. You said this was all in your head. I asked for evidence. This appears to be evidence, as long as Levitz spoke correctly a decade ago. Good to hear! I did not know Time Warner continues to send Kirby's heirs money for the use of Fourth World characters.

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#601873 - 02/06/13 12:53 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: Lawson]
billybates Offline
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Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 389
Loc: ON, CAN
You're taking "all in my head" out of context...I was talking about my speculation that the producers of Young Justice pepper the show with Kirby characters in order to slide his heirs cash.

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#601874 - 02/06/13 01:09 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: billybates]
Lawson Offline
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Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: billybates
You're taking "all in my head" out of context.


Let's check the context.

Originally Posted By: billybates
Young Justice paid Jack Kirby more in royalties than all the non-Captain America Marvel movies combined (by which I mean anything.)


Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
For what?


Originally Posted By: billybates
They pack the show with royalty-attached characters (seemingly by design). They structured the show so a Kirby character appears in almost every episode. Kirby's estate even got character payments for henchmen as obscure as Bruno "Ugly" Mannheim and Glorious Godfrey has made a cameo in every episode this last season. Characters like The Forever People, the DNAliens, and Klarion were all featured in episodes.


Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Interesting. I can't seem to find any news stories confirming this, though. Drop a link, please.


Originally Posted By: billybates
Oh, this is all in my head (which is why I said seemingly by design.) It could be that they don't give a hot damn about comic book creators getting a payout, but I'm saying the result of the show are these character royalties. And you know they get the royalty when the "character created by..." credit appears at the end of the show.


Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Originally Posted By: billybates
Kirby's estate even got character payments

This is the part I want to see a link confirming.



And a day or two later, you were nice enough to thumb through your back issues of a Kirby fanzine and find the Paul Levitz comments from 2002. So thank you for that.

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#601875 - 02/06/13 01:19 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: Lawson]
Mr. Socko Offline
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Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 500
Comicon.com: proudly serving contrarian dips since 1998.

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#601876 - 02/06/13 01:48 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: billybates]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7070
Originally Posted By: billybates
You got me to sift through my Jack Kirby Collectors

Something you should have done three or four days earlier.


Originally Posted By: billybates

Paul Levitz (on the 2002 Kirby Tribute Panel): "it continues to earn the estate money."

Kirby's wife died in 1998, so we assume "the estate" to be his children and grandchildren. There's almost no way of knowing what the terms of the agreement are now, and if those terms are being honored for whoever benefits. Also, one citation from Paul Levitz (at the beginning of his seven-year term as president of DC Comics, I might add) at a media event trying to generate positive press for the company he has dedicated himself to for over 35 years (he was only in his mid-20's when this deal he's talking about went down) is not an airtight statement of fact.

Sorry, but I can't just accept the word of a man who was instrumental in the repeated fucking of Alan Moore.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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#601877 - 02/06/13 01:48 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: Mr. Socko]
billybates Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/00
Posts: 389
Loc: ON, CAN
See, I figured Allan is saying show me the proof that the producers force Kirby characters in the show...I would have no idea that he was talking about the basic reality of royalties.

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#601878 - 02/06/13 01:54 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: billybates]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
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Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7070
Originally Posted By: billybates
I figured Allan is saying show me the proof that the producers force Kirby characters in the show



I have no doubt that there are some Kirby fanboys in the animation world. Or maybe just some desperate, idea-barren wankers like whoever used Pat Broderick's character "Plastique" on Smallville (hey, where's Paul Levitz on that?). If there's one thing Jack Kirby was excellent at, it was generating empty vessel characters.


Originally Posted By: billybates
I would have no idea that he was talking about the basic reality of royalties.

...even though I specifically requested information confirming just that. But you did try, so thanks for your efforts.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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#601879 - 02/06/13 03:26 PM Re: Whine and Complain to Get What You Want... [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
If there's one thing Jack Kirby was excellent at, it was generating empty vessel characters.


Eh. I dunno that I agree with that.

I'm a Kirby fan. Kirby created strong, dynamic characters -- often weird characters -- many of them unique to his own eccentric sensibilities.

Other guys had very different ideas about what to do with, say, the Silver Surfer. Their vision didn't match Kirby's. And his DC creations, like the Fourth World and Kamandi, probably should have expired upon his departure from the company, at least in comic book format. They keep getting recycled, but nobody else has known quite what to do with them, very much including Grant Morrison.

The reason DC keeps reusing Darkseid & Co. in its stories -- in print and on television -- is because it doesn't really have any other cosmic-level villains. The Joker? Lex Luthor? Sinestro? Black Manta? It's hard to turn any of them into the centerpiece of a cosmic conspiracy of evil the way you can with Darkseid and his minions.

Paul Levitz was the first to realize this when he made Darkseid the surprise villain at the heart of the LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES' "Great Darkness Saga." Since then, Darkseid has fought everyone from Batman to the Teen Titans.

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