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#601998 - 04/06/13 02:25 AM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
I pretty much hate most of the main characters on The Walking Dead. Rick's an asshole and his wife was an obnoxious, whiny bitch. Son Carl is a psychopath. Best friend Shane was a psychopath, too, whom Rick killed. One of the gang is a devout racist. I wouldn't want to spend any more time with any of them than I would with Tony Soprano.

The majority of people probably want to watch shows about people whom they think they'd like in real life (Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond, Men Behaving Badly ... well, maybe not that last one). But there's quite a few of us who only demand that the characters be interesting in some way and who find most of the popular series based on supposedly likable characters to be about people that we wouldn't actually like at all in real life (Sex and the City, Oprah, Friends, et al.). And there's enough of us to make successes of shows like the Sopranos.

Mike, in other words, doesn't know what he's talking about. Fox News is popular. Is it the likable news network?
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#602008 - 04/08/13 10:58 AM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Charles Reece]
MBunge Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/01
Posts: 3386
Loc: Waterloo, Iowa, United States
Originally Posted By: Charles Reece
I pretty much hate most of the main characters on The Walking Dead. Rick's an asshole and his wife was an obnoxious, whiny bitch. Son Carl is a psychopath. Best friend Shane was a psychopath, too, whom Rick killed. One of the gang is a devout racist. I wouldn't want to spend any more time with any of them than I would with Tony Soprano.

The majority of people probably want to watch shows about people whom they think they'd like in real life (Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond, Men Behaving Badly ... well, maybe not that last one). But there's quite a few of us who only demand that the characters be interesting in some way and who find most of the popular series based on supposedly likable characters to be about people that we wouldn't actually like at all in real life (Sex and the City, Oprah, Friends, et al.). And there's enough of us to make successes of shows like the Sopranos.

Mike, in other words, doesn't know what he's talking about. Fox News is popular. Is it the likable news network?


1. Charles, if you could crawl out of your own ass for more than 5 minutes, you might be shocked to find that Fox News is very likable indeed to the folks who regularly watch it. You're smart enough to know that "likable" and "universally liked" are not the same thing. Oh...wait. What am I saying? That sort of deliberate obtuseness is one of the things that has helped make this such a popular and vital online community.

2. Most shows like The Sopranos are not anywhere nearly as watched as The Sopranos. Mad Men, for example, will be lucky to get 1/3rd the audience of Walking Dead. And the truth is that a great many of the folks who watched The Sopranos DID like Tony and many of the other characters, to the point where I remember David Chase publicly expressed some frustration that viewers were missing the point about them being evil people. Of course, Chase himself contributed to that perception. Why do you think Tony didn't beat his wife and kids?

3. I'm tempted to write a long post lamenting what this place used to be and what it has become, but why bother? The people who've left won't read it and the increasingly trollish handful who will are apparently quite happy with what they've helped make it into.

Mike

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#602009 - 04/08/13 11:07 AM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: MBunge]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
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Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: MBunge
You're smart enough to know that "likable" and "universally liked" are not the same thing.


I love the point in the conversation where Mike contradicts himself, doesn't realize it, and just keeps arguing because fuck you that's why.

And calls everyone else trolls.
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#602010 - 04/08/13 05:51 PM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: MBunge]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7071
Originally Posted By: MBunge
I'm tempted to write a long post lamenting what this place used to be and what it has become, but why bother?

You'd be better served writing to Steve Conley and asking him to approve new accounts on a more consistent basis. The largest problem this site has is that while there are new people signing up all the time, approvals are conducted only sporadically and applications expire after 24 hours.
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If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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#602013 - 04/09/13 05:15 AM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Allen Montgomery]
shjonescrk Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 1351
Loc: Airdrie, Scotland
Its nice to be nice as my father-in-law says.

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#602014 - 04/10/13 12:14 AM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
Originally Posted By: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette
Originally Posted By: MBunge
You're smart enough to know that "likable" and "universally liked" are not the same thing.


I love the point in the conversation where Mike contradicts himself, doesn't realize it, and just keeps arguing because fuck you that's why.

And calls everyone else trolls.


Yeah. When he has to argue that Fox is successful because it's likable, there's not much left of his original theory. To summarize the current version: shows contain characters that are likable to some group of people and the larger that group, the more financially successful that show will likely be. Someone give him a network to run. These HBO executives don't have a clue.

Also, don't most fans of the Wire, Deadwood, the Sopranos and on and on tend to like the characters, even when they're villains? What is likable to Mike? Wanting to hangout at a BBQ listening to the new Journey album?

Also, how many sitcoms fail year after year despite having likable characters? And what about well-remembered dramas like My So Called Life or Freaks and Geeks, how far did their niceness get them?

Mad Men doesn't have any zombies or action in it, so a huge portion of the potential American audience is not going to be interested in it. It's still a successful show. It's not as dumbed down as The Walking Dead, so that'll reduce its potential viewership, as well.

It amazes me that when there's more variety on TV than at any time during its miserable LCD history, someone actively wants to return to the old views that kept its content so limited. What next from Mike, we shouldn't have continuing storylines because they decrease viewership? Remember the good old days of Charlie's Angels and the Bionic Man? Oh yeah.
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#602015 - 04/10/13 10:51 AM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Charles Reece]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: Charles Reece
Also, don't most fans of the Wire, Deadwood, the Sopranos and on and on tend to like the characters, even when they're villains? What is likable to Mike? Wanting to hangout at a BBQ listening to the new Journey album?


I can't think of a lot of shows on which the nicest character is also the most likable. Maybe Saul on Breaking Bad, or Agent Cooper on Twin Peaks.*

In general though, does anybody really like Ned Flanders more than Homer Simpson?

---
*And frankly, even that's a toss-up with Albert, the biggest asshole on the show.
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"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
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#602016 - 04/10/13 12:09 PM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
Originally Posted By: MBunge
I'm tempted to write a long post lamenting what this place used to be and what it has become, but why bother?

You'd be better served writing to Steve Conley and asking him to approve new accounts on a more consistent basis. The largest problem this site has is that while there are new people signing up all the time, approvals are conducted only sporadically and applications expire after 24 hours.


I didn't realize there was such a problem getting new accounts approved, though I'm really not surprised. I don't think Comicon gets much of Steve and Rick's attention anymore.

Although I don't have the time to lurk here like I used to, I miss some of our old regulars, like Joe Lee and Alex Ness, both of whom got angry and left during the Joe Kubert R.I.P. thread argument. There's no doubt that Comicon is winding down. I'll be sorry on the day the plug finally is pulled.

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#602017 - 04/10/13 12:16 PM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Lawson]
Mr. Socko Offline
Member

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 500
I'm planning to begin following you all on Twitter when that happens.

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#602019 - 04/10/13 06:56 PM Re: The dramatic importance of being nice [Re: Lawson]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7071
Originally Posted By: Lawson
I didn't realize there was such a problem getting new accounts approved

Fuka said something in the Gutters about there being no new accounts, so I tried a few times to register new ones and was unsuccessful every time. There have been twelve new accounts approved since the beginning of January and only forty-one last year (including at least a few that were obviously intended for spamming).


Originally Posted By: Lawson
I miss some of our old regulars, like Joe Lee and Alex Ness, both of whom got angry and left during the Joe Kubert R.I.P. thread argument.

BS. They're both still here. Jolly Joe is on right now, in fact. Tony Isabella has logged in some time since February.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
Bob Kane

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