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#602077 - 04/28/13 05:23 PM BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7082
Purely intended for educational purposes.





WRITERS
=======
Brian Azzarello
Darwyn Cooke
John Higgins
J.Michael Straczynski
Len Wein

ARTISTS
=======
Neal Adams
Rafael Albuquerque
Mike Allred
Lee Bermejo
Tim Bradstreet
Cliff Chiang
Michael Cho
Becky Cloonan
Amanda Conner
David Finch
Gary Frank
Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez
Michael Golden
Adam Hughes
Phil Jimenez
Dave Johnson
J.G. Jones
Micael Kaluta
Chip Kidd
Andy Kubert
Joe Kubert
Jim Lee
John Paul Leon
Josh Middleton
Olly Moss
Kevin Nowlan
Paul Pope
Ivan Reis
Eduardo Risso
Steve Rude
P. Craig Russell
Chris Samnee
Bill Sienkiewicz
Mark Simpson (Jock)
Ryan Sook
Brian Stelfreeze
Jim Steranko
Jill Thompson
Bruce Timm
Ethan Van Sciver
Matt Wagner
Scott Williams

COLORISTS
=========
Laura Allred
Brad Anderson
Tony Avina
June Chung
Barbara Ciardo
Romulo Fajardo, Jr.
Lovern Kindzierski
Lee Loughridge
Laura Martin
Paul Mounts
Trish Mulvihill
Phil Noto
Sonia Oback
Alex Sinclair
Brennan Wagner
Glenn Whitmore
Matt Wilson

LETTERERS
=========
Sal Cipriano
Jared Fletcher
Rob Leigh
Carlos Mangual
Nick Napolitano
Clem Robins
Steve Wands
John Workman

EDITORS
=======
Mark Chiarello
Chris Conroy
Will Dennis
Mark Doyle
Wil Moss
Camilla Zhang

_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#602080 - 04/30/13 12:43 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Strenuous Teddy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 361
And while some of these creators were working on this project that so distinctly sides with corporation over creator they were also attaching their name and work to a publication called Creator Owned Heroes. You gotta love the industry.

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#602082 - 04/30/13 01:49 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Strenuous Teddy]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7082
Just a few, though. Phil Noto and Paul Mounts played large roes in COH but were small players in BW. Paul Pope did an interview in COH and Dave Johnson provided one cover for COH and BW. The most significant contributor to BW who also participated in COH was Amanda Conner, but her husband Jimmy Palmiotti was the main guy on COH.



Looking again at the list, the main one that really upsets me is Kevin Nowlan. I understand the issues the other BW perpetrators who were also Alan Moore collaborators — Len Wein, Boleslav Sienkiewicz, John Higgins and especially Jim Lee — may have had with Moore, but I just don't get this one. I would like to think that his cover was just some convention drawing they had in a drawer somewhere (since it's an homage to a very famous rendition of Batman and Robin by Carmine Infantino), rather than being a commission especially for BW.

I have asked Kevin to address my concerns on his sporadically updated blog (http://kevinnowlan.blogspot.com/), and hopefully he will.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#602083 - 04/30/13 02:24 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7082
And Comicon lurker Greg Jolly keeps the cross-site flame war going over at the Little Exasperated Nancy Girls forum:

http://lxng.forumotion.com/t277p30-blacklisting-the-before-watchmen-team#2514
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#602084 - 05/01/13 11:38 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
Ha ha, wow.

Free advice, guys: it doesn't count as ignoring someone if you continue to read and discuss everything they write.

_________________________
"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
- Ed Gauthier, DCP

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#602087 - 05/02/13 12:43 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Ceci n'est pas une chaussette]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7082
I can't decide which is funnier: How their whole theme is reactionary to me (they even invited Ritchey), or that the board area with the most topics is Isabella's spam section.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#602088 - 05/02/13 12:55 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Allen Montgomery Online   content
Member

Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 7082
Originally Posted By: Joe Lee
You never had the guts to go up to anyone at a convention and tell the Allen's honest truth.

Originally Posted By: Allen Montgomery
You pay for my air fare, rental car, admission cost, room and meals and I'll go to any convention you want me to, confront anyone you say.

Hey, here's your chance, Greg:

http://www.bigwowcomicfest.com/

Eleven Before Watchmen scabs are appearing. I'll confront every one of them and film the whole thing if you just convince your beard to cough up the dough.
_________________________
"The trouble with being a ghost writer or artist is that you must remain anonymous without credit.
If one wants the credit, one has to cease being a ghost and become a leader or innovator."
— Bob Kane

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#602098 - 05/08/13 06:58 PM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Allen Montgomery]
Dan Smith Offline
Junior member

Registered: 04/17/13
Posts: 1
I had considered composing a list like this to avoid creators that had worked on Before Watchmen. I figured that it really wasn’t worth my time since I read so few comics, and almost no DC Comics.

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#602100 - 05/10/13 10:44 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Dan Smith]
Lawson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 11978
Loc: Lexington, Ky.
Why boycott everyone connected to BEFORE WATCHMEN?

I thought it was a dumb, creatively bankrupt project, so I didn't buy it. I was gratified to see sales in the low 40,000 range. Maybe DC lost a little money on it.

And sure, I'm disappointed in the comics pros who disregarded Alan Moore's request for WATCHMEN to be left alone. They should have shown solidarity.

That said, DC and Marvel have screwed comics creators for a profit since their very beginnings. I don't need to name names, right? We all know the history. So -- why are we still buying anything from DC or Marvel, including comics, reprint books, movies, T-shirts and all the other licensed material?

I don't blame Steve Rude (for example) for BEFORE WATCHMEN. Rude drew one comic book, and frankly, he needs the work. I blame DC. It was DC's decision. So why boycott Rude the next time he produces something but keep giving DC our money?

And if the answer is, well, as of this moment, we're all going to boycott everything connected to DC forever and ever, why are we just starting now? Are we morally satisfied with everything DC has done over the last 75 years? And what about Marvel?

It's hard to be morally pure. If we're going so far as to shun eight different letterers because they carry the stain of BEFORE WATCHMEN on their souls, then it seems odd that we didn't wipe our hands of the entire industry ages ago.

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#602101 - 05/10/13 10:55 AM Re: BEFORE WATCHMEN Scabs List [COMPLETE] [Re: Lawson]
Ceci n'est pas une chaussette Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2840
Originally Posted By: Lawson
Why boycott everyone connected to BEFORE WATCHMEN?


So that when Before Sandman rolls around, it won't be profitable to take the job.

Quote:
So -- why are we still buying anything from DC or Marvel, including comics, reprint books, movies, T-shirts and all the other licensed material?


I'm not. Before Watchmen was the last straw; haven't bought anything from DC or Marvel (including a movie ticket) since it came out.* Why Marvel? And why now? Well, because like I say, it was the last straw, not the first. When I was twelve, it was easier to shrug my shoulders at the treatment of guys like Jack Kirby and go, "well, it was a different time, and I dunno, I like Fantastic Four, it's not like Walt Simonson did anything, and mumblemumblemumble." As an adult, with a huge example right in my face, it's harder to ignore.

Quote:
It's hard to be morally pure.


In this case, it's really not. It's only hard if you consider "continuing to read Batman" a priority.

---
*A kind of simultaneous last straw was seeing The Avengers. I enjoyed it, but couldn't shake that feeling like, "This movie is making how much money? And Kirby's family aren't fucking millionaires?"

It felt ugly. That ugliness helped the decision a lot. Now Iron Man 3 has rolled around, and despite having enjoyed the first two, I haven't seen it. Haven't really missed it, either.

It's not unlike quitting smoking. When you stop making excuses for why you keep doing it, you realize the room smells better without it.
_________________________
"When one says 'Africa,' it refers to Africa in the Euro-colonized sense, not the damn bush country or whatever."
- Ed Gauthier, DCP

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