Page 1 of 42 1 2 3 ... 41 42 >
Topic Options
#9690 - 11/09/04 06:19 PM [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
Brian Jacks Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 638
Loc: NYC
JOHN BYRNE'S IMO - THOSE WACKY SUPERHEROES:

With The Incredibles tearing up the box office, comic legend John Byrne asks whether Hollywood is treating comics fairly.

Online at:
http://www.ugo.com/channels/comics/features/johnbyrne_imo/11_08_04/
_________________________
UGO.com Editor, Comic and DVD Channels
- Create your own superhero with the new UGO HeroMachine 2.0

Top
#9691 - 11/09/04 06:48 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
ericomaraltice Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 1099
Quote:

"And I sit here, and I think of what might have come to pass if the guy who directed The Iron Giant and the producers who gave us Toy Story had decided to make a superhero movie that was every bit as straight as the first, and every bit as innovative as the second. It might have been, to borrow a line for Kier Dullea, "something wonderful."


Brian, even you must be embarassed to have to promote this crap. An angry denouncement of the greatest super hero movie most of us have ever seen, from the man who brought us - a couple of weeks ago - "Superman: True Brit".

Has John Byrne even seen the movie he's devoted this column to? I know that seems like an obnoxious question - it'd be complete insanity for him to write about it without seeing it, and amateurish and irresponsible for you to print it, but I notice he doesn't actually refer to any specific events or characters so I had to ask.

Anyway, the movie is an absolute triumph and an incredible (sorry) tribute to comics. Byrne's weird fixation on the minor plot point of one hero needing to get back into shape is par for the course, I suppose, but to extrapolate from that that the movie is somehow mocking superheros is a bit much even for him. He had nothing to say about the characterization, the animation, the comic book fights and powers being lovingly recreated in the most faithful interpretation I've ever seen?

Something smells about this, and it ain't just because it's on UGO. This reads like something he could have written without leaving the couch, much less actually thinking about the movie he supposedly is commenting on. I think I need to question his motives here - and by extension, yours.
_________________________
-OMAR

Top
#9692 - 11/09/04 06:48 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
Norb Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 409
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Will someone please lock up John Byrne before he continues to humiliate himself and the entire comics community?

He avoids mentioning it in the essay, but, if his comments on his message board are to be believed, Byrne HASN'T EVEN SEEN THE MOVIE HE'S BITCHING AND MOANING ABOUT. "sigh" indeed.

Top
#9693 - 11/09/04 06:55 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
Andrew Farago Offline
Member

Registered: 12/01/01
Posts: 377
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Anyone who's actually seen The Incredibles movie instead of making some weird conclusions based on the commercials will see that it's about as "straight" a superhero movie as any other, with the exception that it's better than about 90% of superhero movies or cartoon adaptations.

Granted, the ads show it as being pretty fun, well-animated and light-hearted, but not the disrespectful, "hateful toward superheroes" movie that Byrne seems to be convinced that it is.

A couple of other quick points:

*Superhero parody is almost as old as superheroes. Sheldon Mayer and Jack Cole were poking fun at tired old superhero cliches back in 1940 or so, when Superman was about two years old. The decision to drain as much fun as possible out of them is fairly recent by comparison.

*As much as people complain about the Adam West Batman, which made the Batman comic *slightly* lighter from 1966 until about 1970, the camp era didn't last all that long, brought in tons of new comic readers (saving Batman from the possibility of cancellation, a prospect which seems unimaginable today), and whose legacy today is that Batman's a lot more marketable today than he was in 1965 and that a few reporters who don't really get the whole comics thing occasionally use "Biff! Bam! Pow!" as headlines for whatever fluff piece on comics they've been forced to write.

All things considered, I'd much rather read books that were influenced by Adam West's Batman than Neal Adams's, but maybe that's just me.
_________________________
The Chronicles of William Bazillion

Top
#9694 - 11/09/04 08:30 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
Peter David Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 855
Loc: NY, NY
What's especially pathetic is that the trailer John was commenting on--presumably the one in which Mr. Incredible can't get into his suit, since John's main complaint involves joking over the character's girth--is NOT A SCENE IN THE MOVIE. Furthermore, Mr.Incredible then goes on an exercise spree and hammers himself back into shape. So John's complaints are utterly without foundation. But that's the hazards of trashing a film without actually having seen it...a practice John excoriates if it comes to someone slamming his own work without reading it.

Oh, and his other observation is also wrong. The one about Hollywood never making films that are incredibly faithful to the source material. "The Maltese Falcon" comes to mind. "The Graduate" is another. The first two Harry Potter films were so faithful that some complained they were TOO faithful. That's just off the top of my head; I'm sure there's more.

PAD

Top
#9695 - 11/09/04 09:44 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
James Van Hise Offline
Member

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 265
Loc: Yucca Valley, CA
What's funny about this is that after seeing the film for the second time in four days, I thought, "You know, someone is going to find something to dislike about this. I can't imagine what, but someone will." Some people just dislike the whole idea of something which is a big hit and widely praised. I was on the set of a film once and in the course of conversation the director remarked that he never saw JURASSIC PARK (this was before any sequels were made) because he didn't like all the hype. Funny thing is, most of the hype came from people who'd SEEN THE FILM and were wild about it. I think that John Byrne just embarrassed himself big time...again.
_________________________
James Van Hise

Top
#9696 - 11/09/04 09:56 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
James Van Hise Offline
Member

Registered: 02/14/02
Posts: 265
Loc: Yucca Valley, CA
Reading over Byrne's piece, it's clear he hasn't seen the film because he keeps referring to trailers, advertising, etc as though this is all the research into a film one needs to do. HE HAD NOT SEEN THE FILM WHEN HE WROTE THIS NONSENSE. The fact of the matter is, THE INCREDIBLES celebrates super heroes (or Supers as they are called in the film), and shows that the public really missed them when they were gone. Mr. Incredible didn't blunder to get sued, he just got sued for doing the right thing and it happened to have realistic consequences. The film is about people being true to who they are and presents some of the best super hero action ever put on film. While it is primarily a comedy, it does have drama in it. This is as far from the Adam West Batman as you can get because while the 1960s Batman TV show clearly made fun of superheros, THE INCREDIBLES pays tribute to them!
_________________________
James Van Hise

Top
#9697 - 11/09/04 09:58 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
Charles Reece Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/99
Posts: 10013
Loc: us of fuckin' a
I think there's some correct thoughts buried in what Byrne says. I'd like to see something more serous done with CG, rather than that ugly looking caricatural realism aimed at preteens. But if some form of realism has to be used and it's a superhero film, why not play it straight, like most superhero comics are written? How many lame CG films for kids with some satirical winks "for adults" can people possibly take? Evidently more than I. This isn't to say Byrne's hillbilly defensiveness over some backwater genre isn't an embarrassment (at least for those considering themselves fans); he's the butt of everyone's jokes, fanboy and non-fanboy alike. However, Hollywood always has to make the most meaningless changes in superheroes for no good reason other than, I suspect, to feel creatively involved on what's not much more than a long commercial for some marketing tie-ins (take the first Spidey film: why not have Gwen, so Raimi could kill her for dramatic reasons, but that would've fucked up the commercial needs of constantly advertising the same characters in every movie).
_________________________
The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written.

Top
#9698 - 11/09/04 11:48 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
ericomaraltice Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 1099
Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Reece:
I think there's some correct thoughts buried in what Byrne says. I'd like to see something more serous done with CG, rather than that ugly looking caricatural realism aimed at preteens. But if some form of realism has to be used and it's a superhero film, why not play it straight, like most superhero comics are written?


I don't know if you've seen the movie, Charles, but it easily plays the concept of the superhero as straight as Stan and Jack did in The Fantastic Four. They were having fun, and kids could read and enjoy those comics. For many of us, that's as "staight" as we need to see superheros played. I don't walk into a movie featuring superheros looking for the next "American Beauty".

Quote:

This isn't to say Byrne's hillbilly defensiveness over some backwater genre isn't an embarrassment (at least for those considering themselves fans); he's the butt of everyone's jokes, fanboy and non-fanboy alike.


This is my new favorite quote.
_________________________
-OMAR

Top
#9699 - 11/10/04 06:13 PM Re: [Hype] New John Byrne Column @ UGO: "Those Wacky Superheroes"
ericomaraltice Offline
Member

Registered: 08/09/02
Posts: 1099
I find this fascinating - Byrne's column disparaging The Incredibles has managed to do what alienating Tom Smith, Neil Adams and Dave & Patty Cockrum, disrespecting blonde latinas, and shooting his mouth off about Chris Reeve (someone's had a busy three months!)couldn't do: inspire several prominent Byrnebots to stand up to their Master. All of the following have hundreds of posts to their names...

http://jb.24-7intouch.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3008&PN=1&TPN=1

Dave Pruitt: I thought The Incredibles was wonderful.

Mike Nebeker: JB, you can damn the ads that Disney's marketing put out, but until you see the film you cannot know how seriously the genre was or wasn't taken in the film. Not that you would be able to enjoy the film no matter how good it is at this point. Your heels are dug in. So sad it isn't on the merits of the actual material.

Rick Lundeen: Me too Dave. But that doesn't matter. Y'see, it's a lot easier to sit
back, make judgements about something you haven't seen, go off half cocked and trash it. But beware, Dave. You'd better never do that same thing to certain comic creators. They will
tear you a new one. ROAR, OH TEMPEST, ROAR!!!

But no, I am not a retailer, not one of the chosen, thus, I am vulnerable. I am only a lowly fan who's supported thy master of the board for over a quarter century. I do have a best friend
who's a retailer though........

ahem....<>

Brian Spaeth: Yeah, complete and total ignorance, and an amazing ability to completely ignore overwhelming evidence that completely destroys his arguement.

Make a list of all the superhero projects that have come out of Hollywood in the past 15-20 years and try to support the "superheroes are silly" arguement. Not only have the serious takes outnumbered the mockeries by far, but the mockeries have all been complete flops.

And JB, I'm a huge fan of your work, but I'm incredibly disappointed to watch the hypocracy of you continually tearing apart a film you haven't seen based only on trailers, print ads, and heresay. What would your reaction be if someone did the same thing wrt Doom Patrol? Go see the damn movie so your opinion is at least informed and credible.


...............................................
But the true insanity, as always, lies in Byrne's own statements. On page three of that mess he posted the following in response to a comparison to the book Superman: True Brit...

Quote:

I think you may have missed my point with the lists -- but anyway, consider this: TRUE BRIT was produced by 4 people, basically, 3 of whom are current or lapsed Brits themselves. "The Incredibles" was not produced by superheroes, or anyone who makes a living chronicling the adventures of superheroes.


Emphasis mine. Always remember to be respectful of your superhero movie producers, kids! "I'm ready for my closeup, Mr. Batman!"

Quote:

One was "insiders" pointing out their own foibles, the other was "outsiders" pointing up the foibles of a genre they do not normal work within.


As his post 9/11 comments attest, this is a man consumed by fear and loathing of the "other".
_________________________
-OMAR

Top
Page 1 of 42 1 2 3 ... 41 42 >


Moderator:  Rick Veitch, Steve Conley