posted
Tony Caputo certainly wasn't the first comics publisher to stiff freelance talent, but he's the first one that I can recall getting press coverage for having done so. Both CBG and TCJ ran articles when Caputo's Now Comics decided that the company had better use for its money than paying the people who wrote and drew their books. Marc Hansen -- a Now artist -- even drew cartoons mocking the guy who was most vocal about trying to get money owed him for work done. Caputo (or a spokesman) explained that the artist wouldn't have had a problem if he hadn't been a young guy who liked to go clubbing -- i.e., if he didn't spend the money he earned in a manner of his pleasing (there was no assertion that he hadn't done his work, and on time). Presumably, if he hadn't spent his first paycheck, he couldn't have had any problem when the decided not to give him his second....
It's one thing to stiff somebody. It's another to mock him for seeking payment.
-------------------- Posted by Otto Chelman
"You have [my] contempt." -- Alan Light to disappointed TBG subscriber. Posts: 1985 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I question the "loveable" quote of the above statement. Can you demonstrate that somehow? As a statement of fact I think it is highly dubious. Prove it Otto. Prove it.
posted
I remember it much the same way Otto does. Back then, the Comics Journal wrote a harsh report on Tony Caputo and his company which sounded quite authoritative to me. It talked about him not paying his contributors. I showed the story to a friend after he got a job with Mr. Caputo as a writer. My friend dismissed the Journal report as being from a bunch of cry babies. I think that he was so happy to have the work that he was willing to turn a blind eye to the Journal article. Then HE got stiffed by Mr. Caputo, after Mr. Caputo used his work.
I worked in small press (as well as large press- D.C, Image, Eclipse) at that time but I never approached NOW. I got stiffed by Steve Milo at Adventure and Andrew Rev at Comico but Tony Caputo had such a bad rep that I never even approached his company.
Who am I? No one you know and I don't know you. I hope to keep it that way.
-------------------- Jeez, granfalloon, that longer post above might be one of the most thoughtful, best written things I've ever read on Comicon. --Lawson Posts: 445 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Alexander, are you a friend of Tony's? He may be a very nice person. Most publishers are. Being nice at the right moment, when it really counts, is how they get quality people to work for them. Many quality people mistake charm for character. Tony is probably a very charming person. Still, he did what he did fifteen years ago. It would be nice to hear an apology, a reasonable statement of defense, or even that he has found God and would never act that way again. It would be nice to hear that he has made some money over the past years and has sought out the people he didn't pay and given them at least part of what they deserved. Instead there is a stream of sarcasm and obfucation over OC's perfectly reasonable comments about his memories of Tony Caputo's professional career.
I am not naive Alexander. I don't actually expect an accurate response to OC's comments (or my own). I know that the group defends the alpha male and that publishers tend to be nothing but alpha males.
If you are his friend, do you ever wonder if one day he will treat you the same way he treated people who worked for him years ago?
-------------------- Jeez, granfalloon, that longer post above might be one of the most thoughtful, best written things I've ever read on Comicon. --Lawson Posts: 445 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Seems to me you guys have remembered the TCJ story well. What's so sad is that this guy is just another shyster in the comics world who gets to "allegedly" rip people off and then go on to write books about making it in the comics world while the people who never got paid probably got burned so bad they lost homes, marriages, etc.
Posts: 5 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The OC: Huh; I don't see any quotation marks in my post, so I don't seen any way that I ever "put words in [your] mouth."
As for me, I'm loveable Otto Chelman, long-time Comicon.com fixture -- a guy who reads a lot and has a long memory.
Welcome aboard, Tony! Congratulations on making your second post! I tip my hat to you!
I meant this: "Caputo (or a spokesman) explained that the artist wouldn't have had a problem if he hadn't been a young guy who liked to go clubbing"
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by granfalloon: I remember it much the same way Otto does. Back then, the Comics Journal wrote a harsh report on Tony Caputo and his company which sounded quite authoritative to me. It talked about him not paying his contributors. I showed the story to a friend after he got a job with Mr. Caputo as a writer. My friend dismissed the Journal report as being from a bunch of cry babies. I think that he was so happy to have the work that he was willing to turn a blind eye to the Journal article. Then HE got stiffed by Mr. Caputo, after Mr. Caputo used his work.
I worked in small press (as well as large press- D.C, Image, Eclipse) at that time but I never approached NOW. I got stiffed by Steve Milo at Adventure and Andrew Rev at Comico but Tony Caputo had such a bad rep that I never even approached his company.
Who am I? No one you know and I don't know you. I hope to keep it that way.
Guys. That Comics Journal article was 12-pages long about how I paid freelancers late. It wasn't about "stiffing" creators -- I paid them late because I paid everyone late, because I got paid late. I'm sure your friend also got paid late unless he got mixed up in the bankruptcy restructuring, which stiffed everyone, including me, except the lawyers, of course. It's not like I went around doing this on purpose. The company was struggling, gentlemen. I didn't have $15 million in capital like CrossGen.
Look. I'm doing my own thing now. I don't run and comic book periodical production company because they don't work, unless you have other sources of revenue or licensing deals or are owned by a media company. They didn't work then and they still aren't working now - the same old Five-Headed Monster still runs rampant and companies are still going out of business and even Marvel went into bankruptcy restructuring.
Same old thing...that's why I'm now a self-publishing book publisher.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Joe Willy: Seems to me you guys have remembered the TCJ story well. What's so sad is that this guy is just another shyster in the comics world who gets to "allegedly" rip people off and then go on to write books about making it in the comics world while the people who never got paid probably got burned so bad they lost homes, marriages, etc.
Dude. You are so ignorant. I lost everything, remember? Bankruptcy? Do you know the definition of Chapter 7? I rebuilt my life from that tragedy. Everything I have today has nothing to do with my old NOW Comics days-- nothing. HOW TO SELF PUBLISH YOUR OWN COMIC BOOK was for everyone else that followed me. So they didn't have to lose everything - just a lousy $13 for 10 years of experience.
I suggest you guys spend your energy trying to decipher ways of saving the comic book, instead of feeding to its demise.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by granfalloon: Alexander, are you a friend of Tony's? He may be a very nice person. Most publishers are. Being nice at the right moment, when it really counts, is how they get quality people to work for them. Many quality people mistake charm for character. Tony is probably a very charming person. Still, he did what he did fifteen years ago. It would be nice to hear an apology, a reasonable statement of defense, or even that he has found God and would never act that way again. It would be nice to hear that he has made some money over the past years and has sought out the people he didn't pay and given them at least part of what they deserved. Instead there is a stream of sarcasm and obfucation over OC's perfectly reasonable comments about his memories of Tony Caputo's professional career.
I am not naive Alexander. I don't actually expect an accurate response to OC's comments (or my own). I know that the group defends the alpha male and that publishers tend to be nothing but alpha males.
If you are his friend, do you ever wonder if one day he will treat you the same way he treated people who worked for him years ago?
I've publicly apologized, more than once, for dragging people into my undercapitalized, cashflow nightmare. I didn't screw anyone out of any money. Why do people think that? Thanks to Quebecor sucking the life out of the company, it filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy-- total liquidation of assets. Game over. It was then purchased out of bankruptcy by the Berkins for peanuts, who then created NOW Entertainment, hiring me as an employee with a minority stake. You're all right. I should've just let it die at that point, but I didn't. I guess just as you are vindictive towards me, I was vindictive towards Quebecor, who was then forced to pay back some of that money to the estate. Unfortunately, it just went into the lawyers pockets. Read the interview guys. Learn something.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
This thread interested me since it was a Now Comics title that got me hooked on comics.
It was a Fright Night comic (issue #8) sitting on a 7-11 magazine rack that caught my eye. I loved the movie and so I found the comic interesting enough to buy. The rest was history. I was a comic fan and Neil Vokes was my first "favorite artist." It was seeking out the first 7 issues that I discovered such a thing as "comic shops" and the rest was history
Sadly, Fright Night didn't last very long (and was never the same when Vokes stopped doing the art). Nevertheless, I will probably always have a soft spot for Now Comics.
Posts: 214 | Registered: Mar 2001
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1. To tip (someone) inadequately or not at all, as for a service rendered: paid the dinner check but stiffed the waiter. 2. 1. To cheat (someone) of something owed: My roommate stiffed me out of last month's rent. 2. To fail to give or supply (something expected or promised).
Close enough, I think, especially considering you only paid after being caught -- and you hadn't been paid at the time the flap hit.
And as to the rest of it -- if you truly believe you're being pursued by a five-headed monster, I urge you to seek psychiatric help. They do wonders with medications these days.
-------------------- Posted by Otto Chelman
"You have [my] contempt." -- Alan Light to disappointed TBG subscriber. Posts: 1985 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by granfalloon: Alexander, are you a friend of Tony's? He may be a very nice person. Most publishers are. Being nice at the right moment, when it really counts, is how they get quality people to work for them. Many quality people mistake charm for character. Tony is probably a very charming person. Still, he did what he did fifteen years ago. It would be nice to hear an apology, a reasonable statement of defense, or even that he has found God and would never act that way again. It would be nice to hear that he has made some money over the past years and has sought out the people he didn't pay and given them at least part of what they deserved. Instead there is a stream of sarcasm and obfucation over OC's perfectly reasonable comments about his memories of Tony Caputo's professional career.
I am not naive Alexander. I don't actually expect an accurate response to OC's comments (or my own). I know that the group defends the alpha male and that publishers tend to be nothing but alpha males.
If you are his friend, do you ever wonder if one day he will treat you the same way he treated people who worked for him years ago?
I've publicly apologized, more than once, for dragging people into my undercapitalized, cashflow nightmare. I didn't screw anyone out of any money. Why do people think that? Thanks to Quebecor sucking the life out of the company, it filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy-- total liquidation of assets. Game over. It was then purchased out of bankruptcy by the Berkins for peanuts, who then created NOW Entertainment, hiring me as an employee with a minority stake. You're all right. I should've just let it die at that point, but I didn't. I guess just as you are vindictive towards me, I was vindictive towards Quebecor, who was then forced to pay back some of that money to the estate. Unfortunately, it just went into the lawyers pockets. Read the interview guys. Learn something.
Quebecor's problem apparently being, they wanted to get paid.
-------------------- Posted by Otto Chelman
"You have [my] contempt." -- Alan Light to disappointed TBG subscriber. Posts: 1985 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by The OC: Quebecor's problem apparently being, they wanted to get paid. [/QB]
No. Quebecor wanted equity and a security agreement before Columbia came in as an investor. However, Columbia wanted the security agreement, being that they wanted to put in $2 million investment (first round). I understand now that the people that worked at Maxwell didn't mind waiting for 90 days to get paid because NOW was one of their biggest clients (over $1 million a year in printing) of which they received around $100,000 a month directly from Warner Publisher Services from the settlements of the newsstand sales. We were in debt in summer, when introducing new titles (because the 5% advance on new titles for the first four issues), then by the end of the year, they got all their money. They experienced this before so they were cool (Yes. Maxwell actually became my bank when Continental Bank went bankrupt). To Maxwell, we generated regular cash for them and took over their St. Cloud plant. To Quebecor, we were a risk, because what if Columbia put us in Chapter 11? So the people at Maxwell started worrying about their jobs.
My mistake was that I should've waited until November/December to bring Columbia in and have them meet, not May, right when we introduced all these new replacement titles.
So you see, it's not as simple as I owed them money. I always owed them money because they were always printing for me and I was waiting 30 to 180 days for my money. It's called undercapitalization.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Alexander Ness: Hey Kaiser Otto, the five headed monster refers to something specific discussed in the Interview.
Thanks, Alexander! I didn't catch it; I guess I was just paying too much attention to lines like, "We didn't pay creators much of anything...."
What that meant, if you pasted the who context, was that while we were paying artists $40 a page to pencil a comic book, Marvel artists were becoming millionaires.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Silent Fox: This thread interested me since it was a Now Comics title that got me hooked on comics.
It was a Fright Night comic (issue #8) sitting on a 7-11 magazine rack that caught my eye. I loved the movie and so I found the comic interesting enough to buy. The rest was history. I was a comic fan and Neil Vokes was my first "favorite artist." It was seeking out the first 7 issues that I discovered such a thing as "comic shops" and the rest was history
Sadly, Fright Night didn't last very long (and was never the same when Vokes stopped doing the art). Nevertheless, I will probably always have a soft spot for Now Comics.
Hey Silent Fox -
This is another perfect example that I'll use in the next version of the white paper! Thanks!
Incidently, I wrote the story in Fright Night #8-11 - still one of my favorite works!
Best, Tony
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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1. To tip (someone) inadequately or not at all, as for a service rendered: paid the dinner check but stiffed the waiter. 2. 1. To cheat (someone) of something owed: My roommate stiffed me out of last month's rent. 2. To fail to give or supply (something expected or promised).
Close enough, I think, especially considering you only paid after being caught -- and you hadn't been paid at the time the flap hit.
And as to the rest of it -- if you truly believe you're being pursued by a five-headed monster, I urge you to seek psychiatric help. They do wonders with medications these days.
There is a big difference between being "stiffed" and being "paid late." When I was a freelance artist and writer, before NOW Comics even existed, I got NO money from companies that "stiffed" me. They ripped me off. I never got a dime and never got paid. When I got "paid late," they check would finally come 90, 120, 150 days later, with an apology and some story about cashflow problem. I guess that's why it bugged me so much to be on the other end of the transaction.
No, the Five-Headed Monster is what is destroying innovation in the comic book industry for 20 years. It's in my white paper and articles that I talk about in the interview at www.popthought.comPosts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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1. To tip (someone) inadequately or not at all, as for a service rendered: paid the dinner check but stiffed the waiter. 2. 1. To cheat (someone) of something owed: My roommate stiffed me out of last month's rent. 2. To fail to give or supply (something expected or promised).
Close enough, I think, especially considering you only paid after being caught -- and you hadn't been paid at the time the flap hit.
And as to the rest of it -- if you truly believe you're being pursued by a five-headed monster, I urge you to seek psychiatric help. They do wonders with medications these days.
There is a big difference between being "stiffed" and being "paid late." When I was a freelance artist and writer, before NOW Comics even existed, I got NO money from companies that "stiffed" me. They ripped me off. I never got a dime and never got paid. When I got "paid late," they check would finally come 90, 120, 150 days later, with an apology and some story about cashflow problem. I guess that's why it bugged me so much to be on the other end of the transaction.
No, the Five-Headed Monster is what is destroying innovation in the comic book industry for 20 years. It's in my white paper and articles that I talk about in the interview at www.popthought.com
Here's how I look at it: if you're an artist and can't buy drawing supplies* because ou're at Day 85 of a 60 day invoice** and haven't been paid, you can reasonably claim stiffed status.
If a reporter asks you how reliable Now Comics*** is about payment, no one would consider you a liar if you said, "They stiffed me." No one would say that you'd lied if the check arrived on Day 90, after the story was written. I don't even think you'd have been wrong.
Moreover, the fact that your enterprise (Now Comics) filed for complete liquidation is prima facie evidence that some debts went upaid**** -- that's the way bankruptcy works. Based on your history and previous published comments, I simply don't believe that none of those unpaid creditors were creative types (writers, artists, etc.).
I note that you haven't made any claims to the contrary. If you paid every artist and writer who ever did any work for you (and thus stiffed one of them), say so. Perhaps you don't do so out of concern that some of your past contributors will take issue with such an assertion?
Hope this helps!
*Actual historical example, presented by freelancer screwed over by actual rapacious publisher.
**Hypothetical example using ficticious values.
***Real company name, used for versimilitude.
****Please note that, say 50 percent partial payment on a debt of $100 is really non-payment of $50.
-------------------- Posted by Otto Chelman
"You have [my] contempt." -- Alan Light to disappointed TBG subscriber. Posts: 1985 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by The OC: Quebecor's problem apparently being, they wanted to get paid.
No. Quebecor wanted equity and a security agreement before Columbia came in as an investor. However, Columbia wanted the security agreement, being that they wanted to put in $2 million investment (first round). I understand now that the people that worked at Maxwell didn't mind waiting for 90 days to get paid because NOW was one of their biggest clients (over $1 million a year in printing) of which they received around $100,000 a month directly from Warner Publisher Services from the settlements of the newsstand sales. We were in debt in summer, when introducing new titles (because the 5% advance on new titles for the first four issues), then by the end of the year, they got all their money. They experienced this before so they were cool (Yes. Maxwell actually became my bank when Continental Bank went bankrupt). To Maxwell, we generated regular cash for them and took over their St. Cloud plant. To Quebecor, we were a risk, because what if Columbia put us in Chapter 11? So the people at Maxwell started worrying about their jobs.
My mistake was that I should've waited until November/December to bring Columbia in and have them meet, not May, right when we introduced all these new replacement titles.
So you see, it's not as simple as I owed them money. I always owed them money because they were always printing for me and I was waiting 30 to 180 days for my money. It's called undercapitalization.
So they got tired of underwriting production by extending credit, and it had been going on long enough that they wanted assurance that they weren't going to left holding the bag on a bunch of unproven books (which, apparently, they did).
Invoking a reasonably applicable accounting term ("undercapitalization") might explain slow/no pay, but it doesn't (a) change the fact that it happened or (b) justify it.
-------------------- Posted by Otto Chelman
"You have [my] contempt." -- Alan Light to disappointed TBG subscriber. Posts: 1985 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I think that you are a message board troll Otto, and devoted to attacking others in the comfort of cyberspace. Your decision at this point to respond towards a meaningless term said in jest to imply that I am ethnically insensitve is proof that you wish to and enjoy being an internet troll. So I wish you well in your endeavor and from someone who is 50% German, 25% Swede and 25% Jewish to you, I apologize if playfully calling you a meaningless term made you feel uncomfortable. I bow down before your mastery of the cyberspace, and the excellence of your ability to attack others for the sake of doing so in and of itself. Well done sir. I am bested.
quote:Originally posted by Alexander Ness: I think that you are a message board troll Otto, and devoted to attacking others in the comfort of cyberspace. Your decision at this point to respond towards a meaningless term said in jest to imply that I am ethnically insensitve is proof that you wish to and enjoy being an internet troll. So I wish you well in your endeavor and from someone who is 50% German, 25% Swede and 25% Jewish to you, I apologize if playfully calling you a meaningless term made you feel uncomfortable. I bow down before your mastery of the cyberspace, and the excellence of your ability to attack others for the sake of doing so in and of itself.
