posted
This conversation has been interesting but not much of it tells about what really happened. I was publishing the ACE Comics line(1986-87). This was about the same time Tony Caputo had his line going. I remember meeting Caputo briefly at a couple of the industry trade shows in 1987, like the Diamond show in Orlando and the big summer convention at Chicago. He seemed like a pleasant enough fellow but I really don't remember too much about him.
These were dark days for small publishers trying to establish themselves in the business. I experienced some of the same cash flow problems that Caputo did. The major problem at the time was that the direct sales market was not stable. In a very short period of time, a half-dozen of the distributors went bankrupt. This included Sunrise, Glenwood, Mile High and several others. Of course, they went out of business owing small publishers like myself and Caputo thousands of dollars. In all fairness to the distributors, they had problems of their own. In some instances the distributors were stiffed by dozens (if not hundreds) of retailers who didn't pay their bills. In a short period of time the problem went from bad to worse.
As I see it...it is kind of hard for anyone to point fingers a yell "thief," especially by someone who wasn't there who has only the foggiest notion of what really went on behind the scenes. Most of the small publishers, myself included, were in no position to absorb that kind of a cash loss and remain in business. I lost my short in the process, as did many others. The major publishers like Marvel and DC got hit too, but they were in a position to absorb the loss and keep going. It was a bad scene. I don't know for certain how it was with Caputo, but I am sure he tried. We all tried. The deck, however, was stacked against most of us. Call it a no-win scenario.
-------------------- Ron Frantz Midguard Publishing Company FANDOM: Confidential Posts: 92 | From: Mena, Arkansas | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by ronfrantz: This conversation has been interesting but not much of it tells about what really happened. I was publishing the ACE Comics line(1986-87). This was about the same time Tony Caputo had his line going. I remember meeting Caputo briefly at a couple of the industry trade shows in 1987, like the Diamond show in Orlando and the big summer convention at Chicago. He seemed like a pleasant enough fellow but I really don't remember too much about him.
These were dark days for small publishers trying to establish themselves in the business. I experienced some of the same cash flow problems that Caputo did. The major problem at the time was that the direct sales market was not stable. In a very short period of time, a half-dozen of the distributors went bankrupt. This included Sunrise, Glenwood, Mile High and several others. Of course, they went out of business owing small publishers like myself and Caputo thousands of dollars. In all fairness to the distributors, they had problems of their own. In some instances the distributors were stiffed by dozens (if not hundreds) of retailers who didn't pay their bills. In a short period of time the problem went from bad to worse.
As I see it...it is kind of hard for anyone to point fingers a yell "thief," especially by someone who wasn't there who has only the foggiest notion of what really went on behind the scenes. Most of the small publishers, myself included, were in no position to absorb that kind of a cash loss and remain in business. I lost my short in the process, as did many others. The major publishers like Marvel and DC got hit too, but they were in a position to absorb the loss and keep going. It was a bad scene. I don't know for certain how it was with Caputo, but I am sure he tried. We all tried. The deck, however, was stacked against most of us. Call it a no-win scenario.
I'm sorry you got hit with the scene. It was nasty as hell. I also remember that exactly when we were ready to sit down with Continental Bank to establish a substantial credit line for the very first time, to help support our expensive move to newsstand, they filed bankruptcy, too.
I completely forgot about Sunrise and Mile High, etc. It was only the profits of the books that barely kept us going, and every year, you had to introduce new ones as there would sure to be some slow dying dogs that needed to be replaced. Without capital infusion of some kind, that was the only way to stay alive.
I established what was considered a hugely successful company on cashflow. It's only problem was I was inexperienced to deal with such growth and I was hugely undercapitalized.
Alas, it is true that entrepreneurs learn more from their mistakes than their successes. Hope you came of it better than I.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote: Jesse: does a man have a moral obligation to pay his debts after excusing himself from the legal obligation through bankruptcy?
Tony Caputo: The key comment is this "his debt." It wasn't my debt, it was the debt of the corporation who was a company I was an employee....
The debts I referred to are those which you incurred when you owned Now Comics, before you filed for bankruptcy. You weren't an employee until after the bankruptcy. As you say above,"[Now Comics] filed Chapter 7 bankruptcy-- total liquidation of assets. Game over. It was then purchased out of bankruptcy by the Berkins for peanuts, who then created NOW Entertainment, hiring me as an employee with a minority stake."
Someone told me about Ron's post and I saw this. I cannot just sit here and let you go on with your life thinking and posting untruths and inaccuracies.
Caputo Publishing, Incorporated (NOW Comics' first iteration) was an Illinois corporation with up to 70 freelancers and up to 17 employees -- I was one of them. I got a paycheck like everyone else. Of course, being the "owner," I had the fiduciary responsibility to pay the bills the best I could, which meant I would have to sometimes forego being paid myself. I still have many of the uncashed paychecks. It's something I've shown young entrepreneurs about being your own boss, without capital and cashflow. It's not fun and games - it's hard work, more so than any full-time job.
Moreover, what I "owned" of the company was obviously completely worthless, otherwise I wouldn't have had to go bankrupt, would I?
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Howard: The last time I saw an argument about this topic, under these circumstances, the "villain" of the piece ended up in jail for foisting off some non-existent "Facial Recognition Software" (code named "Face-IT") to investors.
The "villain" this time at least engages in discussion on the matter. Now if we could just hear from some of the "victims" rather than their self-appointed and unrequested defender, we might actually learn something.
Why Howard? What are they going to say?
"I got stiffed!" "He didn't pay me!" "He paid me late!" "He didn't pay me enough!" "He's an asshole."
There you go. Tell me Howard, when you were a kid, did you ever dream of starting a comic book company that millions of kids, teens and adults loved only to end up in bankruptcy, because nobody gave a damn about it, but you?
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Caputo Publishing, Incorporated (NOW Comics' first iteration) was an Illinois corporation with up to 70 freelancers and up to 17 employees -- I was one of them. I got a paycheck like everyone else. Of course, being the "owner," I had the fiduciary responsibility to pay the bills the best I could, which meant I would have to sometimes forego being paid myself. I still have many of the uncashed paychecks. It's something I've shown young entrepreneurs about being your own boss, without capital and cashflow. It's not fun and games - it's hard work, more so than any full-time job.
Moreover, what I "owned" of the company was obviously completely worthless, otherwise I wouldn't have had to go bankrupt, would I?
Since you were equal to everyone else, I'm guessing that everyone else owned their creations and right to (re-)publish them elsewhere? If so, then your defense has some merit. And, if this is true, what was bought 'for peanuts" other than peanuts? Who would pay anything for what essentially amounts to a co-op, where none of the creations go along with it?
-------------------- The Gospel, wherein much Truth is written. Posts: 7122 | From: us of fuckin' a | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Tony C Caputo: Why Howard? What are they going to say?
"I got stiffed!" "He didn't pay me!" "He paid me late!" "He didn't pay me enough!" "He's an asshole."
There you go. Tell me Howard, when you were a kid, did you ever dream of starting a comic book company that millions of kids, teens and adults loved only to end up in bankruptcy, because nobody gave a damn about it, but you?
You misunderstand my intentions. The very fact that there is nobody screaming "Where's my money!" leads me to believe that anyone who got "stiffed" realizes it's a bankruptcy and that that was where it all ended. We have no screaming victims--only an outraged self-appointed advocate.
My dream comics were never in the basement. They were at the old man's yard sale out at the old country house. And they were ten cents a piece when they were new, so the old man had them marked way down. Sometimes they were on the spinner rack in the drugstore I time-travelled to, after I had spent years collecting 1932 and 1933 dimes to buy them with--only to realize that the coins themselves cost more to buy than the books!
(And actually, I did have the comic creating dream... even scripted the first 3 issue after plotting the whole 6-issue arc; but the publisher wouldn't pull the trigger with the artists, and thus it all went to pieces. Fortunately, writing prose fiction proved more successful.)
-------------------- Howard Price Sr. Editor The Trades: Entertainment industry analysis since 1997 Posts: 882 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Okay, here's my experience. I worked for Now Comics, both incarnations. First on the Real Ghostbusters (I wrote 26 issues), Fright Night (5 issues), one issue of Twilight Zone and on Green Hornet (where I wrote about a dozen issues). So I know whereof I speak. I met Tony many times at conventions, and even attended the Chicago Comicon twice during that period and visited the office of Now Comics. We had our ups and downs but ultimately, even though I felt I had to quit Now over problems I was having with them, I ultimately was paid for all my work, although things were bad when I left in 1992. Tony left Now about 1994, as I recall, and the company went on "hiatus" (I always loved that misleading term) in 1995. I figured that was the last I'd hear of Now. But a few years ago I got a phone call one day, from Tony Caputo. I hadn't spoken to him in years. He called me to apologize for difficulties I had with the company when I felt I had no choice but to quit. This surprised me because anyone who's ever had a job has felt they were screwed over somewhere along the way, but how often does that person come back years later and apologize for what happened. I've had people who ripped me off who ripped me off who wouldn't apologize to me if I put a gun to their head. Hal Schuster, for instance, but since he died 5 years ago I figure that I came out ahead even though he owed me 15 grand when he shut down and fled the country to live in Thailand (which doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US). So ultimately I feel that Tony Caputo not only did right with me, but actually went out of his way to do the right thing. That almost never happens.--James Van Hise
-------------------- James Van Hise Posts: 254 | From: Yucca Valley, CA | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
It was good of Tony to apologize to James, and to forego payment when things went south. But there remain puzzling discrepancies. Why did Tony apologize to James, who was owed no money, but call Alex Ross an a**hole for complaining that he was owed money? Why be more gracious to a freelancer who lost less?
Then there are these apparently contradictory statements:
quote:”It wasn't my debt, it was the debt of the corporation who was a company I was an employee... “
“Of course, being the ‘owner,’ I had the fiduciary responsibility to pay the bills the best I could….”
The latter statement appears to be the most accurate. Unless someone else had a bigger share of the company, Tony’s self-description of “employee” deserves the scare-quotes more than his self-description of “owner.”
So assuming the debt was Tony’s, the question remains: does a man have a moral obligation to pay his debts after excusing himself from the legal obligation through bankruptcy?
-------------------- ........................ jessehamm.com Posts: 565 | From: Lodi, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Caputo Publishing, Incorporated (NOW Comics' first iteration) was an Illinois corporation with up to 70 freelancers and up to 17 employees -- I was one of them. I got a paycheck like everyone else. Of course, being the "owner," I had the fiduciary responsibility to pay the bills the best I could, which meant I would have to sometimes forego being paid myself. I still have many of the uncashed paychecks. It's something I've shown young entrepreneurs about being your own boss, without capital and cashflow. It's not fun and games - it's hard work, more so than any full-time job.
Moreover, what I "owned" of the company was obviously completely worthless, otherwise I wouldn't have had to go bankrupt, would I?
Since you were equal to everyone else, I'm guessing that everyone else owned their creations and right to (re-)publish them elsewhere? If so, then your defense has some merit. And, if this is true, what was bought 'for peanuts" other than peanuts? Who would pay anything for what essentially amounts to a co-op, where none of the creations go along with it?
Before Quebecor pulled the plug, Vender, Price and Kaufman (trademark lawyers) valued our NOW name at equal to our annual sales, about $5MM. There was also the propriety concepts that were optioned by Hollywood - ALIAS, SUPERCOPS, BATS, CATS & CADILLACS, etc, etc, etc, the list is to long and it was too long ago to remember everything in my first business plan I wrote , ever. The existing relationship with the licensors also provided value.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Tony C Caputo: Why Howard? What are they going to say?
"I got stiffed!" "He didn't pay me!" "He paid me late!" "He didn't pay me enough!" "He's an asshole."
There you go. Tell me Howard, when you were a kid, did you ever dream of starting a comic book company that millions of kids, teens and adults loved only to end up in bankruptcy, because nobody gave a damn about it, but you?
You misunderstand my intentions. The very fact that there is nobody screaming "Where's my money!" leads me to believe that anyone who got "stiffed" realizes it's a bankruptcy and that that was where it all ended. We have no screaming victims--only an outraged self-appointed advocate.
My dream comics were never in the basement. They were at the old man's yard sale out at the old country house. And they were ten cents a piece when they were new, so the old man had them marked way down. Sometimes they were on the spinner rack in the drugstore I time-travelled to, after I had spent years collecting 1932 and 1933 dimes to buy them with--only to realize that the coins themselves cost more to buy than the books!
(And actually, I did have the comic creating dream... even scripted the first 3 issue after plotting the whole 6-issue arc; but the publisher wouldn't pull the trigger with the artists, and thus it all went to pieces. Fortunately, writing prose fiction proved more successful.)
The Trades is very impressive, Congrats on some awesome material. My dreams weren't about collecting as much as creating comics. Thanks for the clarification. Did you ever see my white paper analysis of the comic book industry? http://www.nowcomics.com/new/comicbook_whitepaper_v2.zip.
Given your emphasis on entertainment analysis on the Trades, thought you may find it interesting!
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jesse Hamm: It was good of Tony to apologize to James, and to forego payment when things went south. But there remain puzzling discrepancies. Why did Tony apologize to James, who was owed no money, but call Alex Ross an a**hole for complaining that he was owed money? Why be more gracious to a freelancer who lost less?
Then there are these apparently contradictory statements:
quote:”It wasn't my debt, it was the debt of the corporation who was a company I was an employee... “
“Of course, being the ‘owner,’ I had the fiduciary responsibility to pay the bills the best I could….”
The latter statement appears to be the most accurate. Unless someone else had a bigger share of the company, Tony’s self-description of “employee” deserves the scare-quotes more than his self-description of “owner.”
So assuming the debt was Tony’s, the question remains: does a man have a moral obligation to pay his debts after excusing himself from the legal obligation through bankruptcy?
Why don't you ask Donald Trump this question.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by James Van Hise: Okay, here's my experience. I worked for Now Comics, both incarnations. First on the Real Ghostbusters (I wrote 26 issues), Fright Night (5 issues), one issue of Twilight Zone and on Green Hornet (where I wrote about a dozen issues). So I know whereof I speak. I met Tony many times at conventions, and even attended the Chicago Comicon twice during that period and visited the office of Now Comics. We had our ups and downs but ultimately, even though I felt I had to quit Now over problems I was having with them, I ultimately was paid for all my work, although things were bad when I left in 1992. Tony left Now about 1994, as I recall, and the company went on "hiatus" (I always loved that misleading term) in 1995. I figured that was the last I'd hear of Now. But a few years ago I got a phone call one day, from Tony Caputo. I hadn't spoken to him in years. He called me to apologize for difficulties I had with the company when I felt I had no choice but to quit. This surprised me because anyone who's ever had a job has felt they were screwed over somewhere along the way, but how often does that person come back years later and apologize for what happened. I've had people who ripped me off who ripped me off who wouldn't apologize to me if I put a gun to their head. Hal Schuster, for instance, but since he died 5 years ago I figure that I came out ahead even though he owed me 15 grand when he shut down and fled the country to live in Thailand (which doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US). So ultimately I feel that Tony Caputo not only did right with me, but actually went out of his way to do the right thing. That almost never happens.--James Van Hise
Thanks for taking my call Mr. James Van Hise and I hope to be able to establish something where we can work together once again, under better circumstances.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Jesse Hamm: It was good of Tony to apologize to James, and to forego payment when things went south. But there remain puzzling discrepancies. Why did Tony apologize to James, who was owed no money, but call Alex Ross an a**hole for complaining that he was owed money? Why be more gracious to a freelancer who lost less?
Have you ever met Alex Ross, Jesse? Have you ever worked with him? I do not owe him money. The bankrupt company that you speak of does not owe him money. Even when Caputo Publishing, Inc. was alive and well, it didn't owe him money. This is a fabrication set in place by someone who believes they were owed royalties, just because, and uses this to make disparaging remarks about me. This is why he's never returned my calls or emails. It's bullshit, and he knows it.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Forgive me, Tony. You may be a wonderful fellow but I really have no way of knowing. I have no doubt that you are a charming and courageous fellow.
It could be that no one is here making bold accusations because there are none to make.
Or maybe it's because the industry is a very small nest and people don't want to publicly filthy the nest. Or maybe it's because they are not around on comicon.com twenty years later.
I'm sure the publishers who still owe me money from my work in comics twenty years ago could defend their actions in this forum. But I saw too much of it go on to not know that some of the publishers were simply taking naive artists for all they were worth, and keeping the money for themselves.
Ultimately, I have no idea if you were less than scrupulous in your dealings, now so long ago. Still, I would advise anyone who got involved with a publisher that had the kind of financial problems that you experienced to be very cautious.
-------------------- Jeez, granfalloon, that longer post above might be one of the most thoughtful, best written things I've ever read on Comicon. --Lawson Posts: 493 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by granfalloon: Forgive me, Tony. You may be a wonderful fellow but I really have no way of knowing. I have no doubt that you are a charming and courageous fellow.
It could be that no one is here making bold accusations because there are none to make.
Or maybe it's because the industry is a very small nest and people don't want to publicly filthy the nest. Or maybe it's because they are not around on comicon.com twenty years later.
I'm sure the publishers who still owe me money from my work in comics twenty years ago could defend their actions in this forum. But I saw too much of it go on to not know that some of the publishers were simply taking naive artists for all they were worth, and keeping the money for themselves.
Ultimately, I have no idea if you were less than scrupulous in your dealings, now so long ago. Still, I would advise anyone who got involved with a publisher that had the kind of financial problems that you experienced to be very cautious.
I remember on December 14, 1990, receiving a photo copy of a check from Warner Publisher Services that went straight to Quebecor because of the assignment I signed with Maxwell (my partner and friends), that was now owned by Quebecor (the evil empire), who put me out of business by calling in my "loan" at the worst possible time.
There I was sitting in my apartment borrowing money from family to pay rent and buy food, wondering what I should do with my life now, when Quebecor was receiving ALL the settlements of the books that shipped months earlier. This check was for $38,000, and it was the advance payment for four new books they "let me" publish, because the advance would cover ALL the printing bill for those four books. That's all. Print these four books, we get the money directly and fuck you. Why did they let me do this? Well, you see, as my spreadsheet in the comic book white paper explains, all the settlement payments for books on the newsstand came in at the end of the year -- about 180 days later, and they pulled the plug on Caputo Publishing, Inc in August and by December 14th, they received EVERY STINKING DIME THAT WAS OWED TO THEM directly from the Warner Publisher Services receivables, because the books soldvery well on the newsstand-- assigned to them directly. They were happy and decided to throw me a bone, which didn't pay anything but themselves.
CPI, because of the multitude of lawsuits, the hostile takeover, etc, etc, filed bankruptcy a few days later because no one wanted to touch it. It was too messy.
Do you know why those "other" notorious scumbags aren't around 20 years later? It's because they DID steal from innocent artists and ran off with the loot. They loved the money more than the art form. Me, it was all about making comics. What an idiot!
I didn't gain anything from the whole experience but a bad rap. I just see myself as just another victim of corporate capitalism, but others see me as the scape goat - the face man. No one else met Bill Forrs, Alice Vazquez, David Husman, etc, etc. These were the people behind the scenes that pulled the purse strings. No one cares about them.
I know that it's completely pointless for me to explain what happened because all of you have been persuaded by those that believe otherwise.
Quite pointless, indeed.
VESPERS is the most fun I've ever had in the comic book industry, and I will continue to do it because I truly love the artform.
Posts: 25 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jun 2003
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In July 2001 you sent me an e-mail asking for permission to reprint a comic strip of mine, in full color, for your then-upcoming book "Visual Storytelling." I never got back to you about that. But I did think about it, and the thing is, I, too remember NOW Comics and the stories of freelancers not getting their paychecks. At the time, it occurred to me that there were probably two sides to the story, and that maybe it would be worth asking you to hear your side. But ultimately, I just didn't bother.
I've worked as an independent contractor a fair amount in my life, especially as a young man when I had no savings to fall back on, and I know how much it sucks to not get paid. The thing is, nobody will just tell you that you're not going to get a check. No, they'll all tell you how great you are, and how valuable they think your work is, and how much they're bending over backwards to make sure you get paid. But when the checks just don't come, week after week, all that stuff just comes off as a bunch of bullshit. As far as you're concerned, all you got was lied to and screwed.
One situation in particular, a client ended up owing me a few thousand dollars before I walked out. Chump change? Not when I had groceries to buy. And what burned all the more was the part where they kept telling me how I was "part of the family," how my checks would be coming soon. When, I asked? When were they going to come? But the only answer I could get was really no better than "when we good and feel like it," because that was the real truth. They had other bills to pay and they just didn't feel like paying mine yet.
In the end, though, they did pay me in full -- just like you say you paid your freelancers. I'm a man of integrity; if anybody asks me, then yes, they honored their obligations by me. I got my money ... eventually. Does that change my opinion of the people who ran that company? Would I go back and work for them again the next time they started up a business? Hell, no.
So here's this e-mail from Tony Caputo, asking to use my work in a book he's putting out. It's full of all this name-dropping -- I'm with this publisher, that publisher, my partner is Mat Nastos the director of Farscape ... "You know Mat?" you asked me -- as if I would, or like I'm supposed to be impressed by this image of you, hanging out at Hollywood parties and making deals. "I don't need to explain what this book is about," you said, "You get the deal" -- all chummy-chummy. And I said to myself, you know what? I've worked for this type of guy before. I've heard this kind of talk before, and I'm sure all those guys who worked for NOW Comics heard the same thing. I thought about those guys and if, whether they were paid or not, they'd choose to do business with you again. I don't think they would. And if they wouldn't, why should I? So I said, screw it. I never got back to you and the e-mail is still sitting there in my Inbox.
Was that an unfair thing for me to do? Did I not give you a fair shake? Should I have heard your side of the story? Maybe.
But see, the other thing is, one thing I know about those guys at that company that screwed me is that, after all was said and done and the company collapsed and they'd pissed away all their angel investors' money and laid people off on Friday at 6pm after working them 50 hours a week for the past month, they would still swear up and down to you that they were the victims. The distributors didn't do their jobs, the product didn't get on the shelves. The marketing guys didn't do their jobs. That sales guy who quit six months ago? If that guy had done his job instead of complaining then we'd all be rich right now. Sure we would. Can't tell you how sorry I am for you, fellas. Nothing but crocodile tears over here.
And you know what, Tony? Clearly there ARE two sides to this story, but you're coming off awful defensive on this message board. Once again, it's got a real familiar ring to it. If you're a good guy, it seems like that would show itself over time. Instead, you're the big victim. Anybody brings up that NOW Comics stuff, it's a slander -- it's the "five headed monster" that's trying to bring you down (whatever that's all about). I don't see you admitting you made any mistakes here. I don't see any regrets that you weren't able to pay your freelancers on a more timely basis. All I see is a whole lot of "me, me, me," and to be quite honest it doesn't give me a whole lot of faith in your side of the story.
Not saying I know what's true or not in this situation, just thought you'd like to know how it looks from this corner of the bar.
Best, Neil
-------------------- Neil McAllister, San Francisco, CA, USA Posts: 171 | From: San Francisco, CA, USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Tony, I read your layout about Marvel licensing out the comics publishing a character at a time and it seems to me to overlook some significant obstacles. Marvel has to protect the "integrity" of those properties and the editorial hoops they would need to set up would be a MAJOR pain in the ass to any of the creative (or corporate) types you mention, so much so as to make your scenario extremely unlikly. Also not taken into account is the interjection of new characters. Marvel is not going to quit publishing comics for a lot of reasons that you fail to take into account, I think.
Posts: 1115 | From: Las Vegas Nevada USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Sometimes they were on the spinner rack in the drugstore I time-travelled to, after I had spent years collecting 1932 and 1933 dimes to buy them with--only to realize that the coins themselves cost more to buy than the books!
