posted
Without a doubt, Ditko is one of the greatest innovators in comics.
Aside from his runs on the Amazing Spider-Man and Dr. Strange, what is your favorite Steve Ditko story or series? Why?
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posted
He did a lot of work for Warren that was beautifully complex in it's use of greys and zip-tones, and the backgrounds and shadings showed far more detail than his Marvel work since he was aware (I'm guessing) that the work would be printed in black and white. Any lingering doubts that I had as to whether he was just a brilliant stylist as opposed to a brilliant artist were forever erased.
I may not be a fan of his writing, but I'm in thrall to his artwork.
Posts: 2178 | From: Basra, Maine | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I think Ditko really comes into his own in the Mr. A and objectivist stuff. I don't like the philosophy behind these comics, but they are a great example of a truly idiosyncratic talent working on comics without any restraints - powerful stuff.
For fun materail with interesting page layouts and art, I like the Charlton horror material (repinted in bw in one of those SD "packages"). Most stories seems like they were scripted in a few minutes, but the Ditko art makes up for this.
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posted
Aside from his moody Warren stuff I've always liked his initial run on The Question for Charlton Comics. Some of his late 50's monster comics for the pre-FF Marvel were beautifully rendered as well. And while I'm thinking of it his various runs on Shade were amazing as well.
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posted
I thought one of his best early jobs (first published?) was "Stretching Things" in FANTASTIC FEARS #5 which in a quirk of fate was written by a young man named Bruce Hamilton who would rediscover comics in 1970.
Another favorite is pre-hero a Marvel strip "I Captured The Abominable Snowman!" in Strange Worlds #1 (reprinted in Strange Tales Annual #2)
-------------------- James Van Hise Posts: 254 | From: Yucca Valley, CA | Registered: Feb 2002
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Shade the Changing Man is probably my favorite series, followed by Blue Beetle. Shade's loss in particular was a big blow, because I wanted so much to know what happened next. Still do, as a matter of fact.
Blue Beetle was different, because I knew when I read it (in the Modern Comics reprints) that it had already been cancelled. But I enjoyed finding all the issues I had missed, and I'll enjoy reading them again (but with good printing) in DC's upcoming Action Comics Archives, volume 2.
I have mixed feelings about Ditko's independent work. I'm not in total agreement with the viewpoint, but I admire him for the fact he sticks to his principles and produces work that is important to him. And in his longer-form works (Static and the Mocker) he does a great job of combining the philosphy with the story.
When pressed to name a single story, thought, I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for the Dr. Graves story "The Ultimate Evil", which had Graves playing a major role int he action, almost as a Dr.Strange surrogate. Writer Steve Skeates has an interesting article on its genesis in Charlton Spotlight #5, for those who are interested.
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posted
Personally, I dug The Question/Mr. A (one and the same, eh?), for the reasons detailed above (particularly Ken's)...followed a close (fourth -- this is behind Spidey and Doc!)- by Killjoy.
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posted
I like some of Ditko's Charlton ghost story comics. His odd style sometimes worked quite well with that sort of material.
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For me, the story that really truned me on to Ditko as a philosopher, not just as an artist, was Mysterious Suspense #1. This was the only full length Question story he ever drew (the other Question stories were back ups in Blue Beetle. In this story, the Question is perhaps the only ethical human in a corrupt universe, and continues to act morally even when all odds are stacked against him.
This is the piece that transitioned Ditko from the mainstream to the alternative. While people may not agree with his (and Ayn Rand's) viewpoint, the man at least tried to integrate philosphy and ethics into comics.
Artistically, I love the Warren work and the Charlton work.
Anyone who loves Ditko should order the Ditko packages from Robin Snyder. There are 5 of them - number 3 reprints the best of the Charlton stories, and the others are original work (including a Mr. A story in # 4).
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
No dancing around it--Ditko's Spider-Man and Dr. Strange were the books that made everybody sit up and take notice. Successive creators on both of those titles pinched a LOT from him--many outright traced panels.
But beyond those two--Mr. A is outstanding and highly stylized and visually compelling.
Blue Beetle is terrific.
Captain Atom was great (and you can see where Starlin got a LOT of stuff for Captain Marvel over at Marvel Comics).
Shade the Changing Man was pretty nice.
Static was pretty sharp too.
And yeah, Ditko's horror and monster stuff was good too.
The Creeper was a terrific book--Hawk & Dove was nicely drawn but a bit too silly for my taste.
And I echo the the suggestion of chasing down the Ditko Packages that Robin Snyder published. There's a lot of good stuff to be found there.
quote:Originally posted by Bring Back Zot: Without a doubt, Ditko is one of the greatest innovators in comics.
Aside from his runs on the Amazing Spider-Man and Dr. Strange, what is your favorite Steve Ditko story or series? Why?
Incredible Hulk #6. I own two pages of art from that. The visual of Banner with the Hulk's head on him was so memorable that it was a huge influence when I did the merged Hulk storyline.
Also liked "Hawk and Dove" a lot when I was a kid. I'm a sucker for brother-relationship stories.
He drew a Spectre story that Bill Mumy and I wrote. That was cool.
PAD
Posts: 855 | From: NY, NY | Registered: Apr 2001
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He drew a Spectre story that Bill Mumy and I wrote. That was cool.
PAD [/QB]
Sounds like a must back issue to chase down. Does anyone know where this story appeared? Just when I finished getting Ditko's terrific run on Rom:Spaceknight.
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posted
I enjoyed his 50s Atlas work a lot. Speedball and Shade, the Changing Man were really really cool, too.
I actually like Ditko more than Kirby. But I also think the Hollies are better than the Beatles, the Kinks are better than the Stones, Donovan is better than Dylan, and Zevon is better than Bruce, so I probably just have an underdog mentality.
Posts: 71 | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Regarding the stolen Ditko art, back in the 1980s the Comics Journal had a big feature on how a lot of Marvel artwork, which had been warehoused since the 1960s, had been slipped out through freight elevators and sold at conventions. This had apparently been going on for a long time and Marvel kept no inventory of what they had until late in the game. I saw a page from the JIM #83 origin of Thor at a San Diego Comicon in the late 1970s.
-------------------- James Van Hise Posts: 254 | From: Yucca Valley, CA | Registered: Feb 2002
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I actually like Ditko more than Kirby. But I also think the Hollies are better than the Beatles, the Kinks are better than the Stones, Donovan is better than Dylan, and Zevon is better than Bruce, so I probably just have an underdog mentality.
(Being totally arrogant and judgemental I feel thoroughly semi-qualified to make the following unsupported statement...)
Wrong about Ditko and the Hollies, right about the Kinks, extremely wrong about Donovan, but absolutely and thoroughly right about the late great Warren Z.
Posts: 2178 | From: Basra, Maine | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Herbie Poon: I enjoyed his 50s Atlas work a lot. Speedball and Shade, the Changing Man were really really cool, too.
I actually like Ditko more than Kirby. But I also think the Hollies are better than the Beatles, the Kinks are better than the Stones, Donovan is better than Dylan, and Zevon is better than Bruce, so I probably just have an underdog mentality.
quote:Originally posted by Peter David: [QUOTE]Incredible Hulk #6. I own two pages of art from that.
Since Ditko doesn't sell his artwork and that artwork was likely stolen--you might not want to advertise that.
I don't see why not. This wasn't obtained at a convention from a dealer named Shifty who had it stashed under his table. It was part of a major art auction that was held at Sotheby's (or Christie's; one of those big auction houses.) I couldn't have bought it under more public circumstances.
PAD
Posts: 855 | From: NY, NY | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:I don't see why not. This wasn't obtained at a convention from a dealer named Shifty who had it stashed under his table. It was part of a major art auction that was held at Sotheby's (or Christie's; one of those big auction houses.) I couldn't have bought it under more public circumstances.
PAD [/QB]
Smuggling Ring Used Sotheby's 110 Times, Italian Probes Show Nov. 4 (Bloomberg) -- A smuggling ring put at least 110 Italian antiquities up for sale at Sotheby's Holdings Inc. and supplied 96 looted objects to 10 museums around the world, according to charges contained in Italian indictments and a judge's sentence of a convicted smuggler.
The global scale of the alleged ring's trade -- worth tens of millions of dollars and involving museums from Tokyo to Toledo, Ohio -- is outlined in a series of cases that Italian prosecutors are bringing, in part to keep looted archaeological artifacts from auction houses and museums, the papers obtained by Bloomberg News show.
``A critical point has been reached, where the laxness, and sometimes the complicity of some museums in the U.S., and elsewhere, has been exposed,'' said Colin Renfrew, 68, a Cambridge University archaeology professor and member of the U.K. House of Lords. ``The current trial is an important one.''
Sotheby's, the largest publicly traded auction house, helped the alleged ring launder looted artifacts, Judge Guglielmo Muntoni of the Rome Tribunal wrote in sentencing Roman dealer Giacomo Medici, 67, to 10 years in prison for receiving and exporting stolen antiquities.
``Selling and re-buying the same artifacts, Medici and his associates were able to trade in `clean' works of art, sellable to whomever they wanted at the prices they themselves set at auction,'' Muntoni said in his decision filed May 12, which catalogs 110 items Medici put up for sale from 1983 through 1994 at Sotheby's in London and New York.
Medici sold stolen antiquities at Sotheby's ``thanks to the absolute absence of controls on the part of the auction house and the complicity offered by its employees,'' Muntoni wrote.
Sales Halted
Sotheby's isn't charged with any crime, and Medici, who says he's innocent, isn't serving his sentence while he appeals.
In all fairness to PAD though, I'm not sure that Marvel artwork from the early 60's necessarily "belonged" to Mr. Ditko. It was probably the property of Marvel, who let it go in some manner because original art was perceived to have little or no value.
Until people started the "give Jack Kirby his artwork back" movement in the 80's, I don't think the disposition of 60's original artwork was ever discussed.
I routinely see Ditko artwork from the 50's and 60's on sale at conventions. I doubt it was stolen from Mr. Ditko himself.Posts: 1664 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Herbie Poon: I enjoyed his 50s Atlas work a lot. Speedball and Shade, the Changing Man were really really cool, too.
I actually like Ditko more than Kirby. But I also think the Hollies are better than the Beatles, the Kinks are better than the Stones, Donovan is better than Dylan, and Zevon is better than Bruce, so I probably just have an underdog mentality.
Could it be?? WERTHAM might have been RIGHT???
Nope. Warren Zevon IS better than Bruce.
Posts: 5258 | From: Cleveland Heights, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2001
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He drew a Spectre story that Bill Mumy and I wrote. That was cool.
PAD
Sounds like a must back issue to chase down. Does anyone know where this story appeared? Just when I finished getting Ditko's terrific run on Rom:Spaceknight. [/QB]
Thanks to Google, I just found where this story appeared - Legends of the DC Universe 80 pg special, 1998.
Image from that story (inked by Kevin Nowlan, no less).
posted
You know what I also remember loving so much as a kid? His run as the last artist on ROM. I was reading that every month when I was 11 or 12, at the same time I had a subscription to Marvel Tales, which was then reprinting his kick ass Spider-Man run. That period, and my lingering Gene Colan obsession, and the period pf my life about a year later when I got deep into EC books, was really what made me think the older artists where just so much better than what we started to see modern comic art turn into. When everything started to look like Liefield or McFarlane or Jim Lee, I got right the fuck out of comics, just lost interest. It's only been in the last 3-4 years because the art has gotten sane enough again in terms of panel layout and sequencial story-telling that I've been able to get back into superhero books.
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quote:Originally posted by Peter David: [QUOTE]Incredible Hulk #6. I own two pages of art from that.
Since Ditko doesn't sell his artwork and that artwork was likely stolen--you might not want to advertise that.
I don't see why not. This wasn't obtained at a convention from a dealer named Shifty who had it stashed under his table. It was part of a major art auction that was held at Sotheby's (or Christie's; one of those big auction houses.) I couldn't have bought it under more public circumstances.
PAD
So...you're saying it's perfectly legal and ethical to knowingly buy stolen goods as long as there are enough people witnessing the transaction?
Interesting.
I'm not convinced that's how the law works.
If I stole your car and sold it in front of a huge crowd of people--I'm pretty sure it would be within your rights to have me arrested. I'm pretty sure it would be within your rights to get your car back. Just because Sotheby's (or Christie's) neglected to check and see that the artwork in question was purchased from its rightful owner in the first place doesn't make the transaction legal or fair.
You may feel fine about purchasing and possessing stolen goods. It may be that you think that the ends justify the means. Having been a guy that has had art stolen (or simply never returned) I don't think that what you've done is something laudable--or something to crow about. You clearly feel otherwise.
"As this debate unfolds, the adage that possession is nine-tenths of the law appears to be holding less and less sway in the art world. Private collectors, dealers, museums and even government institutions in the United States and elsewhere are finding with increasing frequency that their ownership claims to artworks may be decided by other considerations than how long they possessed the works or the prices they paid for them."
If I read this article right, the law would seem to be leaning one way on these types of cases, and Mr. Larson is probably right in this case, unless there is other information that has not been brought up yet.
Posts: 5258 | From: Cleveland Heights, Ohio | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Ditko doesn't seem to particularly care about his original artwork anyway, so why would he be bothered if any of it had been stolen?
Posts: 377 | From: Airdrie, Scotland | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by shjonescrk: Ditko doesn't seem to particularly care about his original artwork anyway, so why would he be bothered if any of it had been stolen?
That doesn't make it legal, ethical or right.
It's not as though Ditko said to anybody--"Here, take my art and sell it and keep the money."
He may not give two shits about it but it belongs to him. It's not as though he tossed it out or gave it away and maybe he uses it to wipe the mud off his shoes but it's his to do with as he sees fit.
I have some art at home that I've drawn that I don't particularly care for. Do I want it? Not really. But I also don't really want it out there either. I don't want people owning stuff of mine that I think is crappy.
The article you linked to had a story of somebody visiting Ditko that was aghast at how he treated his art. And yeah--that's fine--but it's his to do with as he sees fit. You'll note that Ditko didn't offer to let the guy have his art--or even let the fellow buy him a proper cutting board.
That's kind of the point. You can buy a car for a million dollars and run it into a pole if you want to--it's your car. This is a similar situation. It's not right for me to steal your car just because you're determined to crash it into a pole--it's YOUR car--NOT mine.
You may think it's unreasonable--you may think it's a damned shame--but it's the law.
Legally, the art belongs to Steve Ditko.
Now--I doubt that Ditko is going to prosecute. I doubt that he's going to go after anybody. But I also doubt that he approves of his work being stolen and sold.
A thief is being rewarded for stealing and there are folks here chiming in and saying, "hey, that's great" and I, for one, think there's something really wrong about that.
quote:Originally posted by shjonescrk: Ditko doesn't seem to particularly care about his original artwork anyway, so why would he be bothered if any of it had been stolen?
That doesn't make it legal, ethical or right.
It's not as though Ditko said to anybody--"Here, take my art and sell it and keep the money."
He may not give two shits about it but it belongs to him. It's not as though he tossed it out or gave it away and maybe he uses it to wipe the mud off his shoes but it's his to do with as he sees fit.
I have some art at home that I've drawn that I don't particularly care for. Do I want it? Not really. But I also don't really want it out there either. I don't want people owning stuff of mine that I think is crappy.
The article you linked to had a story of somebody visiting Ditko that was aghast at how he treated his art. And yeah--that's fine--but it's his to do with as he sees fit. You'll note that Ditko didn't offer to let the guy have his art--or even let the fellow buy him a proper cutting board.
That's kind of the point. You can buy a car for a million dollars and run it into a pole if you want to--it's your car. This is a similar situation. It's not right for me to steal your car just because you're determined to crash it into a pole--it's YOUR car--NOT mine.
You may think it's unreasonable--you may think it's a damned shame--but it's the law.
Legally, the art belongs to Steve Ditko.
Now--I doubt that Ditko is going to prosecute. I doubt that he's going to go after anybody. But I also doubt that he approves of his work being stolen and sold.
A thief is being rewarded for stealing and there are folks here chiming in and saying, "hey, that's great" and I, for one, think there's something really wrong about that.
Yeah, but ... in this instance we don't know that the art in question is stolen. Because a lot of Ditko's artwork has been stolen, doesn't mean that Peter David's Ditko artwork is stolen by any stretch of the imagination.
Anyway the question of who owns the art is still in dispute. Marvel are claiming ownership of the art but are just being nice about it and give it back to the artist.
Steve
Posts: 377 | From: Airdrie, Scotland | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: When will we see OOP volumes go back-to-print? It's been almost two years since we were told this would happen and there appears to be no progress. If and when they go back-to-print (BTP), how often will they be released? All at once? Monthly? Every so often? Are there some volumes, like Spidey Vol. 5 and FF Vol. 5, that Marvel has placed a priority on reprinting first (those being probably the most expensive on the secondary market)?
CORY: I can speak to this from editorial angle. Our Salesmeister, David G., I'm sure, will field it from the mystical world of inventory, sell-in/sell-through, and the many other factors that give him giant-sized headaches that are involved in such a decision. The initial work on BTP is conveniently taken up by the Omnibus volumes. You all know that the Uncanny X-Men Omnibus completely restored the entirety of X-Men #94-131. I'm nearing the finish line on completing ASM #1-38. That's eight volumes worth of Masterworks right there. Done, set, and ready to go, and I'm not mentioning the other three Omni-thingers I'm working on right now!
coming soon ALL of Ditko's spider run in one book.
-------------------- "The folly of mistaking a paradox for a discovery, a metaphor for a proof, a torrent of verbiage for a spring of capital truths, and oneself for an oracle, is inborn in us." (Paul Valery) Posts: 3535 | From: Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Nov 2002
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